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0006691Dwarf FortressWorld Generation -- Constructionspublic2014-07-08 12:032014-09-02 11:55
Toady One 
0006691: Excessive number of necromancer towers.
I mean, you can find 10, 20 towers in a single area on a map sometimes. It's ridiculous. They're spawning way too frequently.
1) Generate a world with a reasonable amount of history
2) Scour the world for necromancer towers
This has been achieved using non-advanced-generation settings.
No tags attached.
has duplicate 0007042resolved Knight Otu Huge amounts of necromancer towers 
has duplicate 0008218resolved Footkerchief Excessive necromancer tower generation 
related to 0007015resolved Toady One List of neighbors on Embark screen includes "Town." 
Issue History
2014-07-08 12:03XxoriginxXNew Issue
2014-07-08 12:10DwarfuNote Added: 0025114
2014-07-08 12:10DwarfuAssigned To => Dwarfu
2014-07-08 12:10DwarfuStatusnew => needs feedback
2014-07-08 12:29XxoriginxXNote Added: 0025120
2014-07-08 12:29XxoriginxXStatusneeds feedback => assigned
2014-07-08 12:57DwarfuNote Added: 0025131
2014-07-08 12:57DwarfuStatusassigned => needs feedback
2014-07-08 13:03DwarfuNote Added: 0025134
2014-07-08 18:42DwarfuNote Added: 0025202
2014-07-08 19:11paluNote Added: 0025213
2014-07-09 02:32WimopyNote Added: 0025269
2014-07-11 02:48Knight OtuRelationship addedhas duplicate 0007042
2014-07-14 11:33FootkerchiefStatusneeds feedback => acknowledged
2014-07-16 16:52cephaloNote Added: 0026687
2014-07-21 09:15dgliddenNote Added: 0027143
2014-07-21 09:15dgliddenNote Edited: 0027143bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0027143#r10140
2014-07-24 13:29dgliddenIssue Monitored: dglidden
2014-07-24 13:52thvazNote Added: 0027448
2014-07-28 07:51smjjamesNote Added: 0027761
2014-07-28 07:52smjjamesNote Edited: 0027761bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0027761#r10488
2014-07-28 08:03smjjamesNote Edited: 0027761bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0027761#r10489
2014-07-28 08:19thvazNote Added: 0027763
2014-07-28 08:43smjjamesNote Added: 0027766
2014-08-05 15:04DwarfuNote Added: 0028401
2014-08-05 15:04DwarfuStatusacknowledged => needs feedback
2014-08-05 15:06DwarfuRelationship addedrelated to 0007015
2014-08-11 13:42smjjamesNote Added: 0028828
2014-08-11 14:05smjjamesNote Edited: 0028828bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0028828#r11062
2014-08-11 14:25smjjamesNote Edited: 0028828bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0028828#r11063
2014-08-11 21:06FootkerchiefStatusneeds feedback => confirmed
2014-08-20 07:58Dame de la LicorneNote Added: 0029353
2014-08-20 11:54Toady OneStatusconfirmed => resolved
2014-08-20 11:54Toady OneFixed in Version => Next Version
2014-08-20 11:54Toady OneResolutionopen => fixed
2014-08-20 11:54Toady OneAssigned ToDwarfu => Toady One
2014-09-01 19:26FootkerchiefStatusresolved => confirmed
2014-09-01 19:26FootkerchiefRelationship addedhas duplicate 0008218
2014-09-01 19:27FootkerchiefNote Added: 0029882
2014-09-01 19:52smjjamesNote Added: 0029884
2014-09-02 11:55Toady OneNote Added: 0029899
2014-09-02 11:55Toady OneStatusconfirmed => resolved
2014-09-02 11:55Toady OneFixed in Version0.40.10 => Next Version

2014-07-08 12:10   
Please use a service like Pastebin and post the world-gen parameters for a world where this is occurring.
2014-07-08 12:29   
Well, it's the default worldgen parameters, unmodified. I'm having a surprisingly difficult time attempting to reproduce again, though you can see it all over the forums.
2014-07-08 12:57   
Well, I'll leave this open for further feedback from other reporters for reproduction. In the future, it'd be more helpful to post links to supporting forum threads.
2014-07-08 13:03   
here's one:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140079.0 [^]
2014-07-08 18:42   
And a pic of the situation...

http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac11/Mondoshawan/Image1.jpg [^]
2014-07-08 19:11   
Here's another image: http://i.imgur.com/UaGIyAw.png [^]
1050 years, small world.
2014-07-09 02:32   
I believe that from the pictures it's also evident that other races spread out way too fast as well. Generally, if I see a mountain range of 30 tiles with a single dwarf site appear on it, I can be sure that nearly all of the mountain's border tiles will be full of dwarven sites in a couple of years.

Same goes for elves. If they appear in a forest, they'll take over it. Even if their population only allows a dozen or so people to live in one retreat (they spread too thin)
2014-07-16 16:52   
For regular civ sites, there's a cap to how many there can be. Obviously it doesn't apply to towers. Not that it should, since towers are rather late comers to a particular world and you don't want them frozen out.
2014-07-21 09:15   
I've also noticed that necromancers have a habit of taking over the world without reducing the number of, or turning off, secrets. Here is one example of a worldgen I abandoned because of necro over-population. (edit: this is only about 1/3 of the total number of towers in that immediate area, the rest didn't fit into the zone map.)

http://i.imgur.com/gPdOq48.png [^]

Unfortunately I have only anecdotal evidence, but until I set "secrets" to "None", worldgen would always end at year 200, every embark I did had a tower within range, I would often not get even the first caravan, only get one migrant wave, and wind up king within a couple of seasons due to necromancers wiping out my civilization. After disabling secrets, I can generate much longer worlds and get the normal number of caravans and migrants.

This is with a Medium Region under advanced worldgen, but the only things I've modified from defaults are amount of metals and number of volcanoes.

2014-07-24 13:52   
I generated a lot of world without messing with the advanced parameters, and never had this issue, so it looks like is some parameter there that is causing it.
2014-07-28 07:51   
(edited on: 2014-07-28 08:03)
The number of towers seems reduced in 40.05 to normal levels, can anybody else confirm?

Edit: Did a medium region worldgen of age 200 years and the default number of secrets and I spot 3, maybe 4. So, they aren't proliferating like they were before. I guess it was a side effect of some other issue that got fixed.

2014-07-28 08:19   
It may happen occasionally. I generated about 10 medium worlds until I liked one, and 2 of them were crowded with towers.

One issue more present is how the goblins dominate every world, with sometimes twice the members of the other races put together.
2014-07-28 08:43   
Yeah, did a few more worldgens and they're still kind of proliferating, it depends on a lot of factors. It's not quite as bad as the previous version I think.
2014-08-05 15:04   
A save may be more helpful than the pics.
2014-08-11 13:42   
(edited on: 2014-08-11 14:25)
Here's a 40.08 worldgen save (no game active in it) with 26 towers total, default settings for secrets. I included the worldgen param text in the zip.

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9358 [^]

I'll post up a worldgen save soon of one with the secrets set to 1.

Edit: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9359 [^] There are actually even MORE towers than the save with default secrets settings.

Would be nice if that 'worldgen history not being the same each time you regenerate the exact same seed' issue was fixed so that we could reliably compare saves using the same worldgen.

Dame de la Licorne   
2014-08-20 07:58   
Confirming that this is still an issue in .40.09.
2014-09-01 19:27   
Reopening due to 0008218.
Save: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9591 [^]
Screenshot: http://tinypic.com/r/15649dj/8 [^]
2014-09-01 19:52   
Someone did post a picture of an absolutely ABSURD number of towers, but I don't know what worldgen parameters that person used. I could try to find that screenshot, but it won't help without the worldgen parameters and the version used.

I have noticed that they would occasionally proliferate a bit, but it didn't seem much different from the higher end of the number of towers that 34.11 could generate. I usually set the towers to a low number or off in 34.11, so I don't remember exactly.
Toady One   
2014-09-02 11:55   
Fortunately the parameters on the latest save reproduced various problems -- the towers were still engaging in fake grazing disputes, which caused them to create administrator necros over conquered towns that quickly tired of their jobs and made new towers. There was also a town master-apprentice explosion that chained several towers. Both of those things generally have a future (one even was the basis for an old devlog story), but for now I'm going to turn them off for necros and revert them to note form since it is too confusing.