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0009853Dwarf FortressCreaturespublic2016-06-20 21:572017-02-04 09:27
0009853: Animal people don't gain "Swimmer" skill
When using an animal person adventurer (namely, creatures with the "animal person" tag in their raws), no amount of swimming will increase their swimmer skill. This presumably is also the case with non-adventurer animal people.

Save: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12172 [^]
Try swimming with any animal person adventurer: their swimmer skill will not increase.
Possibly related to 0009588.
creature, skills, swimming, tag
has duplicate 0011171resolved Loci Adventuremode: Animal people cant improve swimming 
Issue History
2016-06-20 21:57InfantIguanaNew Issue
2016-06-20 22:15InfantIguanaTag Attached: creature
2016-06-20 22:15InfantIguanaTag Attached: skills
2016-06-20 22:15InfantIguanaTag Attached: swimming
2016-06-20 22:15InfantIguanaTag Attached: tag
2016-06-21 09:07chaosvoltNote Added: 0035443
2016-06-21 12:30InfantIguanaNote Added: 0035453
2016-06-21 19:21chaosvoltNote Added: 0035458
2016-06-21 19:51chaosvoltNote Added: 0035459
2016-06-21 20:36InfantIguanaNote Added: 0035460
2016-06-21 20:39InfantIguanaNote Edited: 0035460bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0035460#r14302
2016-06-22 00:22chaosvoltNote Added: 0035463
2016-06-22 01:25InfantIguanaNote Added: 0035465
2016-06-22 02:06chaosvoltNote Added: 0035466
2017-01-01 08:32InfantIguanaNote Added: 0036119
2017-01-01 10:08chaosvoltNote Added: 0036120
2017-01-01 10:39InfantIguanaNote Added: 0036121
2017-01-01 15:42chaosvoltNote Added: 0036122
2017-01-01 16:10InfantIguanaNote Added: 0036123
2017-02-04 09:27FantasticDorfNote Added: 0036263
2017-02-04 09:45FantasticDorfNote Edited: 0036263bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0036263#r14619
2017-02-04 09:54FantasticDorfNote Edited: 0036263bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0036263#r14620
2017-02-04 09:55FantasticDorfNote Edited: 0036263bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0036263#r14621
2017-02-04 10:40FantasticDorfNote Edited: 0036263bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0036263#r14622
2017-03-05 03:18ZiusudraIssue Monitored: Ziusudra
2019-10-30 14:11LociRelationship addedhas duplicate 0011171

2016-06-21 09:07   
But they aren't drowning when you do so? I would assume this is a consequence of most animals having SWIMS_INNATE. This makes swimming skill unobtainable but unnecessary.

I assume that the creature variation lacks a "replace this tag" function for changing SWIMS_INNATE to SWIMS_LEARNED. If it DOES have that function in it already, something has gone wrong.
2016-06-21 12:30   
They *do* drown if they don't have at least Novice-level Swimmer skill. Still, I think you're onto something. The "animal person" tag probably changes [SWIMS_INNATE] to [SWIMS_LEARNED] when it's applied to an animal, but somehow keeps aspects of both active.
2016-06-21 19:21   
If you put some points into swimming, are you able to not drown? This seems like a more severe problem then...
2016-06-21 19:51   
Also. Serpent men seem to have no issue swimming with no points in swimming. Two complications: they're amphibious, and they don't use creature variations. I'll need to test olm men or some other creature-variation-based amphibious being.
2016-06-21 20:36   
(edited on: 2016-06-21 20:39)
Novice and even Dabbling animal person swimmers seem to do just fine in rivers and oceans for short periods. However, I was able to make the animal person in the save above drown without much effort, in spite of them being Novice-level. Same deal with a dingo man I tested later, which I'm sure is derived from an animal with the [SWIMS_INNATE] tag.

Curiously, although the olm man uses the "animal person" tag, they seem to have no trouble swimming. Maybe it's the [AMPHIBIOUS] tag in the olm's raws that makes the difference, there.

2016-06-22 00:22   
...without much effort? Are you doing something derpy like intentionally forcing yourself deep enough that you'd start drowning even you DID know how to swim? >.>
2016-06-22 01:25   
No, I just swam upstream in a river for a little while, by which I mean for about 10-15 seconds. Then came the sweet embrace of death.
2016-06-22 02:06   
Huh. You went from swimming to randomly drowning? Normally if you're swimming, you stay swimming unless you get submerged.
2017-01-01 08:32   
Investigated this again. Disregarding whether or not I was mistaken before, this issue doesn't appear to be present in 43.05. I think it's safe to call this resolved.
2017-01-01 10:08   
The lack of skill gain, the inexplicable drowning, or both?
2017-01-01 10:39   
Looks to be both. Animal people with the [SWIMS_INNATE] tag only drown when submerged and don't gain Swimmer skill. The others that don't have the tag flounder and drown when inexperienced, but gain Swimmer skill like all other races that lack the tag.
2017-01-01 15:42   
Hmm. Not sure if "can't gain skill with SWIMS_INNATE" is intended or bug. Possibly intended, so long as their swim gaits are balanced with that in mind.

Wait, does swimming skill even affect swim speed anymore?
2017-01-01 16:10   
Hm, not sure - I didn't check. It probably relies solely on the creature's gait at this point.
2017-02-04 09:27   
(edited on: 2017-02-04 10:40)
May be legible for a separate issue report but animal class fish do not have swimming skills suggests swims innate is broken without the fish being able to swim without individual skill-sets. (swimming & innate required)

Reading them in DFhack will tell you that they are perceiving dangerous terrain but since they are underwater & aquatic they can't move and will spam failed pathing everytime they want to move. When you read their skills in df_soul they also have no skill to swim at all.

They will flee towards 3/4th's of water or less such as a drying up/diverted hot environment or diverted river flow. Then die in a attempt to do what they were doing before like activities such as getting off the map

I have a save here with some tigerfish that tried to flee and got caught up leading to a stack of them air drowning over time, some milkfish in the prior season after being prompted by my water-construction causing pressure decided to leave after the season was over after previously being not able to move but suddenly "re-learnt" how to move. (they are not featured on the save)

Save - http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=12699 [^]

The tigerfish can move because the pull of the water makes them panic & learn how activating [SWIMMING_INNATE] in a combo with aquatic water breathing, most rivers & water bodies etc are static. Tigerfish move VERY fast when they want to get off the map and see their chance in 3/7th's of water with the help of water pressure.

Leaving behind messages like this in errorlog in a attempt to get out of the 'dangerous water'

path fail: tigerfish,1,31,155 -> 19,20,155: Id # 265:Path Goal Flee Terrain:Station None at 1,31,155

As described animal people with [SWIM_INNATE] cannot swim because they don't have the swimming skills required but apparently gain experience in swimming faster than counterparts.

Olm men can path between land and water due to being amphibious so [SWIMS_INNATE] would work in its buggy state and it'll learn a little swimming while its trying to avoid the dangerous water by going to shore to let it path past water & swim in future.

Turtles, otters etc leave the water shortly while they still can after dwarves embark & activate a site.