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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0010998Dwarf FortressDwarf Mode -- Buildings, Cages and Chainspublic2019-01-09 01:022019-01-21 09:41
Assigned Tolethosor 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version0.44.12 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0010998: Dwarves too erratic to observe complex furniture/museums/surroundings
DescriptionDwarves need a number of ticks now standing nearby furniture to acknowledge their surroundings in a 3x3 self centred radius, they will spend significantly more time "sitting" (standing over a chair or walkable piece of furniture like a table/empty museum stand) when not eating on loosely placed chairs under 'no-job' than standing in random positions.

They will notice things usually only adjacent to their current position but this has a problem in that to observe a museum they need to sit/stand for a prolonged period of time to understand and not gleam basic information about the actual furniture it's positioned upon only.

(Chair/Standing -> Display Furniture *usual erratic standing time if any* -> Display Exhibit etc. *additional time seated*)

Problem being that locations make them very erratic with visitations as well as being pulled somewhere else, and they also subtly not pay attention to things around them in locations either when solely focused on the location floor activity.
Steps To ReproduceCreate a single exhibit museum in the middle of 10x10 or 5x5 (empty space for dwarves to loiter), and closely surround the exhibit it with 8 chairs, repeat the room design minus the chairs next-door and burrow dwarves into each.

Turn other location zones (taverns etc.) off for best effect to remove the worst of erraticness or leave on/activate to see how often dwarves do not visit.

The success rate of acknowledging the complex furniture or art in specific chair centred spaces as dwarves don't have a chair to hone in on close to the display without randomly standing by will decrease, i recommend two different subject objects on a fresh embark to make identifying which one is more common easier with less clutter.
Additional InformationMy measurements of ticks is imprecise and uninformed to exact computing standards it seems longer sitting periods to my current save where i noticed this. "millbuilding" idle activity according to the DFhack gui output being what 'no job' dwarves are doing may be centrically biased to chairs and buildings as it suggests.

It was never like this previously to my knowledge pre-taverns, and has made them generally unobservant and is counter-intuitive to passive decoration except for the player's benefit rather than dwarves, personally i downrate this as a detraction from the game and a inconvenience to build chairs everywhere.

I don't know if there is a set allocation of timed observations per tick, to understand more/the entirety of a 3x3 radius's objects if any but it suggests so the summary's complaint was aimed at dwarves observing a particular linear direction.
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FantasticDorf (reporter)
2019-01-16 08:00

Seperate test, dwarves will not react to corpses in museums vs on the floor unless they actually look at the furniute, so putting 4 chairs around a museum pedistal in cardinal directions (like a table) can be directly traced to where they are looking rather than using a object.
lethosor (manager)
2019-01-18 23:33

What's your source for the claim that
- dwarves need to be stationary for some time to observe things (personal research? devlog? forums?)
- they never engage in this observation in 0.44.12 (in-game thoughts? something else? note that DFHack research in this area is sparse)

If the issue is that dwarves are performing other activities, keeping them from observing objects, I don't think this is a bug. Particularly if this only happens sometimes, I would say it's expected behavior.
FantasticDorf (reporter)
2019-01-20 09:31

Personal research - I was experimenting and found that dwarves were looking at the museum piece when i put a exhibit in their room on particular tiles with furniture on them but not when the stand was isolated. I've expanded this but like i've detailed, were ignoring a wide (in floorspace) museum area's subjects even with forced attendance.

Expanding this design i have also made effective socialisation spaces (contrary to traction of social skills) with confirmed thoughts of social skill development gain by reading thoughts and expanding friends lists amongst already social skill gifted dwarves, allowing them to interact with family and friends relevant to 0009711 basic design and my discussion of it on the forums found here (( [^] ))

I can provide a save of a new embark, though i should start with present embarks, which i have two relevant examples of, ill provide it in my next note.
FantasticDorf (reporter)
2019-01-20 11:00

Save and some further detail here: [^]

There are 2 fortresses in the zip with different populations, and on the download page i have explained the outline of each.
lethosor (manager)
2019-01-21 09:41
edited on: 2019-01-21 09:41

Thanks for the saves and details - I don't know enough about the mechanics here to look into it in much detail, but Toady probably does.

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2019-01-09 01:02 FantasticDorf New Issue
2019-01-16 08:00 FantasticDorf Note Added: 0039120
2019-01-18 23:33 lethosor Note Added: 0039128
2019-01-18 23:33 lethosor Assigned To => lethosor
2019-01-18 23:33 lethosor Status new => needs feedback
2019-01-20 09:31 FantasticDorf Note Added: 0039133
2019-01-20 09:31 FantasticDorf Status needs feedback => assigned
2019-01-20 11:00 FantasticDorf Note Added: 0039136
2019-01-21 09:40 lethosor Tag Attached: Save Included
2019-01-21 09:41 lethosor Note Added: 0039140
2019-01-21 09:41 lethosor Status assigned => acknowledged
2019-01-21 09:41 lethosor Note Edited: 0039140 View Revisions

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