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|0006940||Dwarf Fortress||Dwarf Mode -- Items||public||2014-07-10 03:53||2020-01-16 07:51|
|Target Version||Fixed in Version|
|Summary||0006940: Some plants unusable as food, brewing and planting.|
|Description||This is apparently an issue with some missing tags in RAW entries. I've noticed this most with certain berries, namely blueberries, blackberries, grapes, etc.. This also causes them to not appear in the "kitchen" tab in the 'z' menu.|
|Steps To Reproduce||Harvest and try to use any of the new berries for brewing, cooking, etc..|
|Additional Information||This may be related to a previous bug I reported about some types of plants disappearing.|
On a side note there's also some other erroneous tags in the RAWs for these plants, such as blueberries showing up as blueberry bushes when harvested. I think the new plant RAW entries could use a good looking over. Of course this isn't anything that modders couldn't fix.
Okay, after digging a little further into the RAWs I have come to the conclusion that this isn't necessarily a bug but an incomplete feature. From what I can gather, berry bushes are supposed to be processed in such a way that you gather fruit from them, either through an as yet seen designation or some new kind of processing at a workshop.
Still, until these features are implemented these items are completely useless. It would be a small thing to adjust the RAW entries so that they act much like the traditional strawberries and prickleberries do, at least temporarily.
Khym Chanur (reporter)
|Garlic can't be used either, since herbalism harvests it as "garlic plants" rather than "garlic bulbs". I don't think there's supposed to be any post-harvesting processing to turn garlic plants into garlic bulbs.|
|sounds related to the no brewing thing|
Khym Chanur (reporter)
I thought that perhaps the problem was that the plants were being gathered before they were "ripe". That is, if you gather them at the start of spring, when the plants are represented by double-quote, looking at (for example) a grape plant will show "grape vines, grape leaves" but no grapes. If you wait until sometime in summer, though, it will now be represented by a "%", and looking at it will show "grape vines, grape leaves, grapes". However, they're still gathered as "grape vines", and can't be used in the kitchen.
Also, you *can* buy grapes, garlic bulbs and such at embark, and they can be used to cook food.
|I bought some blueberries from caravan, brewed them, got seeds, planted seeds at farm plot, gathered harvest, but the harvest wasn't usable in kitchen.|
|strawberries, cranberries, bilberries, blueberries, and raspberries show up in the kitchen with "Brew" tags but cannot be brewed. They show up as "leaves" under inventory instead of plants. Muskmelons do not have the brew toggle available. Surprisingly carrots do make carrot wine (which I've had on a trip to Florida and don't recommend).|
edited on: 2014-07-16 20:30
Most of these fruits are brewable if you use the "brew fruit" command at the still. I have brewed several barrels of cranberry wine, blackberry wine, apple cider, etc... Even so, this only applies to the fuits themselves and not the plants so it's only usable for stuff you embark with or trade for.
Khym Chanur (reporter)
|Like troas, but unlike javel or Lemunde, I can't brew embark-bought fruits. This seems different than the bug about harvested plants, so I filed a new bug, bug 0007423.|
|my fruits were also brought in during embark, so that is probably the issue for me as well. The fruits are stored in bags in spice barrels just like quarry bush leaves.|
|Cabbage leaves are inedible in adventure mode.|
These are the plants produced by farms that are not listed in the kitchen tab and are, as far as I can tell, unprocessable:
String bean plants
Broad bean plants
Strawberry plants cannot be processed either, but are listed in the kitchen menu, are cookable, but (unlike strawberries) are not brewable.
edited on: 2014-10-27 21:51
In 40.14 These plants are also now gathered from gathering zones in addition to the berries they produce. These plants still cannot be processed into anything despite them building up in the stockpile.
You can also still gather them directly, but that appears to produce no berries.
Toady One (administrator)
|Which plant exactly, and what is the exact behavior? The beans are broken, but I used berry bushes in the tests prior to release and they all seemed to work by intended. They shouldn't even attempt to gather from berry bushes without berries, and they shouldn't pull the plants from zones or from designation.|
edited on: 2014-10-28 16:37
It might be because I used a migrated save from 40.13 but this is what was happening:
Created a gathering zone over Bilberry bushes, Blueberry Bushes, and Cranberry vines.
Nothing would happen until the bushes/vines formed berries. Once berries formed, the workers would pick the berries and then come back to pick the bush/vine and stockpile them on my food collection stockpile. I couldn't find any labor in any workshop that could do anything with these bushes/vines, so, given enough time, you'd fill up a stockpile with these.
I could also directly use the d/p selection to manually have them gather the bush/vines (but would not gather the fruit this way). Again, bushes/vines stockpiled as food without any apparent use.
I'll create a completely fresh map and see if it acts the same way. And if it does, I'll upload the save.
Another thing that might be important: this happened on a tundra, which I don't think it supposed to have any food bearing plants in the first place.
UPDATE: Turns out that it was indeed a save compatibility issue. 40.13 saves (have tested it with 2 different 40.13 saves) still count the bushes/vines as harvestable resources that causes them to act funny with gathering zones. Gathering zones wait for the berries to form and then you get the weird harvesting like I posted above.
Native 40.14 worlds do not have the issue. Only berries are harvested and the plants are left where they are.
edited on: 2014-11-01 19:36
Well I'm on a fresh 40.14 world, I embarked with some bags of grapes and strawberries along with the plump helmets, yet I'm only able to brew the helmets. I picked up some grapes when the season came and, well what do you know? I could make grape wine. Though as soon as I ran out of THOSE grapes, I could make no more, and I was left with the original 10 grapes and strawberries I embarked with.
So maybe it's the embark fruit that's bugged?
Edit: After mixing up the stockpiles I found that it was because of the container that the grapes were not being brewed. It says Spice Barrel. What gives?
Problems brewing embark-purchased fruit are caused by the fruit being stored in a bag. (0007423) Try dumping the fruit out of the bags then reclaiming it to workaround that bug.
I believe this bug is mostly resolved at this point (v0.40.24).
Strawberries, however, are still problematic. Since their structural raws include EDIBLE tags, dwarves will still yank strawberry plants out of the ground. Unfortunately, that harvest product does not provide seeds, making strawberry farming difficult to sustain. While wikipedia suggests that the entire plant is edible, it would perhaps simplify things if the plant's structural EDIBLE tags were removed temporarily, until a way to select desired farming output is implemented.
|I would agree, Loci - if you format the old strawberry raws to match the format of the new berries (such as bilberry), they work as intended (for simplicity, instead of reality). I'm going to leave this open just in case we get duplicates and to eventually resolve at least the strawberry issue.|
I have unbrewable bilberries at the moment. They show up as cookable and brewable in the kitchen menu but can't be brewed at a still (no unrotten reagents available). The berries were fort grown and are stored in an (imported) barrel along with other (fort grown) plants (none in bags).
I've also got unbrewable strawberry plants in my stockpile that DON'T show as brewable in the kitchen screen.
Follow up: After some other plants became available I was able to set some brewing jobs at the still. At this point the dwarves were able to take the bilberries and make them into wine. Maybe this is a different bug (certain plants, though brewable, don't count for the purpose of allowing brewing jobs to be set)?
The strawberry behavior seems to have been covered by previous comments.
|There was a strawberry bug a year and a half ago that was fixed at that time. My current 0.42.05 fortress doesn't have any problems brewing bilberries. I would rather guess you're subject to the barrel bug, where any job to access a barrel to add/remove contents locks the barrel from access by other jobs (such as brewing) until the access has completed. Don't use barrels/bins unless you have to or only use them to haul stuff to the trade depot (and don't rely on all of them being available for hauling).|
edited on: 2017-01-09 15:44
Here's a save where "Bitter Vetch" was harvested from shrubs. It is listed under Plants in the Stocks menu but does not show up under Z-Food Stores if you forbid all other plants. Also, I tried to cook, brew and process it...nothing works. Sounds like it fits right in here.
The world was generated with 0.43.03
edited on: 2017-02-02 10:29
The relation is with the structural_plant material which is shared between trees and all plants. The actual growths have to be removed from the 'stem' first, else the actual bush itself is unusable.
A good example is a quarry bush which has a unusable stem, it is picked up from mossy grass by herbalists or collected as a bush by farmers, it then processed to remove the products and sort them into bags for leaves & rock nuts. The bushel described in the reaction as [REAGENT:plant:1:PLANT:NONE:NONE:NONE] is destroyed after the product is created giving the targeted and other growths suitable for the container (which post seed-barrel incompatability bug can now be a barrel) as a product.
Theoretically this allows the bushel problem to be solved the same way as quarry bushes by just using a reaction to separate them by defining fruit as part of the things they should be extracting from the bush.
Fruit and growths (bulbs,leaves) controlled by [OUTDOOR/INDOOR GARDENS] is different to crops controlled by [INDOOR/OUTDOOR FARMING] which are meant to be one plant object but can themselves have growths (wheat = oat's in the related issues being admired for beer is meant to refer to the plant product as a whole and is correct.)
'Crops' with no function (no innate product/ediblity or brewability) aren't bought along or used by a civ and therefore are removed (hence why you can't buy dimple dye plants, pig tails, or rock nut plants for production) but your farmers and herbalists still collect & store them during fortress mode.
If its any use, as of 43.05 strawberries have specific growth tokens [GROWTH_HOST_TILE:BRANCHES_AND_TWIGS] but herbalists/farmers pick up the entire plant instead of extracting the fruit off the static plant (which theoretically until the plant dies would provide a time regulated supply of strawberries without re-planting that farmers could just use) a bit like picking fruit out of trees using a stepladder delicately only to haul the entire tree back.
Strawberry raw for 43.05 via the wiki - http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Strawberry/raw [^]
> A suggestion to create 'removing' plants orders to be separate from collecting usable materials off said plants with new growth tokens like strawberries would help herbalists from becoming confused
> As a matter of example, [OUTDOOR/INDOOR ORCHARDS] for tree growths (bananas/fruits etc) would be different to a hypothetical token of [OUTDOOR/INDOOR TREE_FORESTRY] for controlling the 'crops' of the trees themselves being planted and summary seeds/saplings.
I think I might be having this issue with 43.05. Let me know if I should make a separate bug report for this instead:
I cannot seem to brew from most garden vegetables (and with mods plants or fruits) upon embarking. They show up in the kitchen with Brew enabled, but the still says no Unrotten DRINK_MAT-producing plants.
edited on: 2017-07-14 17:09
A) Embark-purchased fruit must be removed from its bag before brewing (0007423)
B) Brewing fruit uses the "brew drink from fruit" job, not "brew drink from plant"
C) Brewables stored in a barrel will be unusable whenever a job targets that barrel (0009004)
If you are still unable to brew after accounting for those problems, please log a new issue and upload a save to DFFD.
edited on: 2018-01-18 14:09
"Red spinach" also does not have any apparent uses. The leaves can be cooked but "red spinach" is also harvested with it and does not show up in the kitchen screen (version 0.44.02)
Welp. You can very easily give the require material reaction product tokens to the base material for stuff like strawberry plants, allowing farming strawberries to work without a hitch.
Add that to the list of stuff I'm gonna fix in Adventurecraft I guess...
|v0.44.12: *All* non-seed products are harvested when farming. Strawberries work (since you get the berries and the edible plants), but a few crops produce unusable plants in addition to their usable parts (e.g. bitter vetch, red spinach) and a few crops still only produce unprocessable plants (e.g. bean pods). Additionally, a few crops behave a bit oddly, like quarry bushes--harvesting a quarry bush produces a stack of leaves (one per plant) and the plants (processable for 5 leaves per plant).|
edited on: 2020-01-18 06:01
The group of plants that contain inedible "fruit" that in turn contain seeds that DF cannot extract (mostly various kinds of beans) can be raw modded into working by taking a cue from trees with nuts:
for the [GROWTH:POD] (or corresponding, e.g. FRUIT for Bambara Groundnut) section and remove
[GROWTH_HAS_SEED] (as the pod now becomes the seed).
This ought to be done by DF until such a time as the process of extracting seeds from such plants is introduced (at which time nuts might as well get shells).
I tested this change on String Beans, and followed the process from plant gathering through planting on a farm plot, and harvesting (but haven't tried cooking).
Edit: A further trouble group of plants consists of those that do not have edible or processable (e.g. milling or brewing) structure parts, but produce "growths" that are edible (GARLIC, ONION, and SPINACH). These ought to be possible to correct by adding the [GROWTH_HAS_SEED] tag to the edible part (not correct biologically, but ought to get farming working until DF supports a correct handling of the plants).
It gets trickier with most forms of YAM, as the usable part is the structural part but it's only edible cooked, a process which destroys the seeds. A short term RAW work around could be to introduce "nut" seeds (as per the above) that are edible cooked (to get DF to collect them). A more complicated, but somewhat more correct work around would be to have "nut" seeds that can be processed in a dummy reaction to trigger their collection, but I don't know if that requires a change of the code (if it does, a "this is a seed, and so it should be collected when present" tag would be a better implementation).
|2014-07-10 03:53||Lemunde||New Issue|
|2014-07-10 06:10||Lemunde||Note Added: 0025519|
|2014-07-10 06:54||Footkerchief||Tag Attached: Intentional/Expected?|
|2014-07-10 16:48||Khym Chanur||Note Added: 0025621|
|2014-07-10 16:48||Khym Chanur||Issue Monitored: Khym Chanur|
|2014-07-10 17:34||newjrmint15||Note Added: 0025633|
|2014-07-16 10:59||Khym Chanur||Note Added: 0026645|
|2014-07-16 11:34||javel||Note Added: 0026653|
|2014-07-16 16:32||troas||Note Added: 0026684|
|2014-07-16 20:28||Lemunde||Note Added: 0026705|
|2014-07-16 20:30||Lemunde||Note Edited: 0026705||View Revisions|
|2014-07-17 10:21||Khym Chanur||Note Added: 0026760|
|2014-07-17 10:41||Footkerchief||Relationship added||related to 0007423|
|2014-07-17 15:58||int_ua||Issue Monitored: int_ua|
|2014-07-18 12:24||Kaelem Gaen||Issue Monitored: Kaelem Gaen|
|2014-07-19 19:38||troas||Note Added: 0026984|
|2014-07-19 19:39||troas||Issue Monitored: troas|
|2014-07-27 21:40||Dwarfu||Relationship added||has duplicate 0007674|
|2014-08-02 19:55||Dwarfu||Relationship added||parent of 0007099|
|2014-08-02 19:57||Dwarfu||Relationship replaced||parent of 0007423|
|2014-08-02 19:57||Dwarfu||Assigned To||=> Dwarfu|
|2014-08-02 19:57||Dwarfu||Status||new => confirmed|
|2014-08-07 18:12||Footkerchief||Relationship added||related to 0007447|
|2014-08-07 18:14||Footkerchief||Relationship deleted||parent of 0007423|
|2014-08-15 06:37||Footkerchief||Relationship added||has duplicate 0008024|
|2014-08-15 13:06||ToadChild||Issue Monitored: ToadChild|
|2014-08-16 07:54||waywardKing||Issue Monitored: waywardKing|
|2014-08-16 12:02||Button||Issue Monitored: Button|
|2014-08-18 11:30||smjjames||Note Added: 0029240|
|2014-08-19 06:35||Footkerchief||Relationship added||has duplicate 0008077|
|2014-08-19 09:11||Shimrod||Note Added: 0029308|
|2014-09-03 16:06||Footkerchief||Relationship added||related to 0008226|
|2014-09-28 12:15||BenLubar||Issue Monitored: BenLubar|
|2014-10-27 21:49||tacomagic||Note Added: 0030765|
|2014-10-27 21:49||tacomagic||Issue Monitored: tacomagic|
|2014-10-27 21:51||tacomagic||Note Edited: 0030765||View Revisions|
|2014-10-28 14:03||Toady One||Note Added: 0030772|
|2014-10-28 16:36||tacomagic||Note Added: 0030773|
|2014-10-28 16:37||tacomagic||Note Edited: 0030773||View Revisions|
|2014-10-28 17:33||tacomagic||Note Added: 0030775|
|2014-11-01 13:01||cybergon||Note Added: 0030828|
|2014-11-01 19:36||cybergon||Note Edited: 0030828||View Revisions|
|2014-11-02 15:36||Loci||Note Added: 0030850|
|2015-03-13 11:55||Loci||Note Added: 0032373|
|2015-03-14 11:55||Dwarfu||Note Added: 0032379|
|2016-03-05 03:07||Steb||Note Added: 0034790|
|2016-03-05 03:25||Steb||Note Added: 0034791|
|2016-03-05 07:58||PatrikLundell||Note Added: 0034793|
|2017-01-09 15:43||Afghani84||Note Added: 0036141|
|2017-01-09 15:44||Afghani84||Note Edited: 0036141||View Revisions|
|2017-01-09 15:45||Afghani84||Issue Monitored: Afghani84|
|2017-02-02 10:14||FantasticDorf||Note Added: 0036250|
|2017-02-02 10:19||FantasticDorf||Note Edited: 0036250||View Revisions|
|2017-02-02 10:23||FantasticDorf||Note Edited: 0036250||View Revisions|
|2017-02-02 10:29||FantasticDorf||Note Edited: 0036250||View Revisions|
|2017-06-08 20:06||Huntthetroll||Issue Monitored: Huntthetroll|
|2017-07-14 14:21||Rekov||Note Added: 0036660|
|2017-07-14 17:08||Loci||Note Added: 0036661|
|2017-07-14 17:09||Loci||Note Edited: 0036661||View Revisions|
|2017-12-29 10:08||4maskwolf||Issue Monitored: 4maskwolf|
|2018-01-18 14:09||Afghani84||Note Added: 0037669|
|2018-01-18 14:09||Afghani84||Note Edited: 0037669||View Revisions|
|2018-05-29 18:09||chaosvolt||Note Added: 0038406|
|2018-05-29 18:11||chaosvolt||Issue Monitored: chaosvolt|
|2018-11-12 12:59||Loci||Note Added: 0038941|
|2020-01-16 07:52||PatrikLundell||Note Added: 0039666|
|2020-01-18 06:01||PatrikLundell||Note Edited: 0039666||View Revisions|
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