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|ID||Project||Category||View Status||Date Submitted||Last Update|
|0008001||Dwarf Fortress||Adventure Mode -- Sites||public||2014-08-14 07:55||2020-01-07 08:53|
|Target Version||Fixed in Version|
|Summary||0008001: Elf/dwarf sites can't be claimed (lack leaders and power locations)|
|Description||Unlike human hamlets and towns, elven and dwarven site governments lack the direct equivalent to lords/ladies. When asking about that site's local government, a group will be mentioned without specifying who's in charge of that group. This means that laying claim to the site has no effect, as there isn't an essential person to kill or drive off to prompt the "you are now in control" message.|
As with human law-givers, dwarven monarchs and elven queens will be mentioned if you about the rulers in a site they live in, but they are separate from the abstract group ruling the site itself.
|Steps To Reproduce||1. Start an dwarf or elf adventurer.|
2. Ask about the local ruler.
|Additional Information||Prior experiments in replicating the effects of generated lords and law-givers (via reading the histories of multiple worlds, examining the string dump, and looking into what position tokens do) led me to narrow down the apparent cause of this.|
The apparent requirements are a combination of the tokens [SITE], [RULES_FROM_LOCATION], and [RESPONSIBILITY:LAW_MAKING]. Law-making plus ruling from a location is what makes law-givers, monarchs, and queens noteworthy enough to gain the "seat of power is here" message, but lack any association with a site.
Barons, counts, and dukes aren't even mentioned due to being appointed nobles without the [SITE] token, and don't have the [RULES_FROM_LOCATION] either (that's the mayor's shtick). Mayors have everything except the law-making responsibility, again resulting in them not being considered in charge of the group ruling a site.
Meanwhile elves lack ANY site-bound positions, making all their essential roles tied to the civilization itself.
|Tags||0.40.08, administrative positions, adventurer mode, claim, conquest, Intentional/Expected?, position|
|Confirmation: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=141310 [^]|
|What's odd is, after having mimicked the effects of the human lord's position successfully, I'm having trouble getting the same combination of tokens to work with an elven or dwarven position.|
edited on: 2014-08-14 16:08
Okay, I went and copied the mocked-up lord position as-is into each civ, made sure no standard positions would compete with them, and tested them. Only the human civ allowed me to gain control of a site, so it seems there's something more to this issue, which I think might be tied to how local lords are referred to as ruling from a location in their site of residence.
I'm thinking it might also require the [BUILDS_OUTDOOR_FORTIFICATIONS] token in the entity, as well. Time for some !!SCIENCE!! on this.
EDIT: Confirmed, plus some complications. The fortifications tag, plus a position filling the requirements mentioned earlier, allows conquest. Problem is that that token no longer works with site types other than towns.
|I'm pretty sure this is intentional (one of many things that was unfinished in this release) but I'll leave it open.|
While I'm at it, I kinda wish I'd science'd up the issue further before reporting, as now it's a "tweak" bug that in fact can't be tweaked, and might be better re-categorized as minor instead.
I'd also add the requirement of fortifications and towns, and thus the fact the issue can't be fixed without fundamentally altering elven and dwarven flavor, if I could edit the "additional notes" section. ._.
|Like Footkerchief said, it's one of those unfinished things. Insurrections making all shops turn into taverns ( 0007764 ) probably should be looked at first.|
edited on: 2014-08-26 13:16
Assigned to...hmm. Not sure what that'll entail. O.o
So dare I ask what it means when an issue is self-assigned?
This has been in assigned status for over a year.
|I see these assignments as who-is-supervising-this-report rather than who-is-working-on-fixing-this-issue as it is used in other projects. When Toady wants to fix some issue he just goes and does so and then assigns it to himself, to mark that given report no more needs close supervision of one of managers. Not assigned reports usually mean not-yet-checked-by-one-of-managers.|
|Ah, I see. That makes sense.|
|It's interesting to note that dark fortress sites do actually have a mead hall like area in the upper parts of the spiral. This area tends to contain the demon master, but I've also found lords/ladies in this area as well. It seems that the demon master suffers from the same problem as monarchs and law-givers in that they only rule over the civ, and not the capital area itself.|
Do what now? Strange, as I've tested trying to bump off goblin lords in the past.
Has that element of the bug been accidentally fixed then? Interesting.
edited on: 2020-01-08 01:18
I can confirm for 44.12 modding a rule from location custom noble with [SITE] will incur the demon-master to share the dark-tower's throne room. [REQUIRES_MARKET],[SITE] and [RULES_FROM_LOCATION] will establish them in each established tower of that civ specifically rather than pits in the evil entity example.
Its a proposed simple solution to the original issue report and they shouldnt step-over one another in authority because of the demon-masters hardcoded monarch position for wider control over nobles or sites under them.
Lack of elves locally rulng may be responsible to incomplete site maps, such as dungeons for holding prisoners (and areas to gather nobles) so Toady didn't fill it in perhaps.
|2014-08-14 07:55||chaosvolt||New Issue|
|2014-08-14 07:59||chaosvolt||Tag Attached: administrative positions|
|2014-08-14 07:59||chaosvolt||Tag Attached: adventurer mode|
|2014-08-14 07:59||chaosvolt||Tag Attached: position|
|2014-08-14 07:59||chaosvolt||Tag Attached: 0.40.08|
|2014-08-14 07:59||chaosvolt||Tag Attached: claim|
|2014-08-14 07:59||chaosvolt||Tag Attached: conquest|
|2014-08-14 10:28||Footkerchief||Summary||Elven and dwarven cities cannot be conquered => Elven and dwarven cities cannot be conquered, since they don't have a leader to kill|
|2014-08-14 10:33||dree12||Note Added: 0029031|
|2014-08-14 15:03||chaosvolt||Note Added: 0029055|
|2014-08-14 15:48||chaosvolt||Note Added: 0029058|
|2014-08-14 16:08||chaosvolt||Note Edited: 0029058||View Revisions|
|2014-08-14 16:48||Footkerchief||Summary||Elven and dwarven cities cannot be conquered, since they don't have a leader to kill => Elven and dwarven cities sites can't be claimed (lack leaders and power locations)|
|2014-08-14 16:49||Footkerchief||Summary||Elven and dwarven cities sites can't be claimed (lack leaders and power locations) => Elf/dwarf sites can't be claimed (lack leaders and power locations)|
|2014-08-14 16:49||Footkerchief||Tag Attached: Intentional/Expected?|
|2014-08-14 16:49||Footkerchief||Note Added: 0029060|
|2014-08-15 01:10||chaosvolt||Note Added: 0029077|
|2014-08-15 09:55||chaosvolt||Issue Monitored: chaosvolt|
|2014-08-15 10:02||smjjames||Note Added: 0029097|
|2014-08-20 10:57||chaosvolt||Issue End Monitor: chaosvolt|
|2014-08-20 13:24||Footkerchief||Assigned To||=> Footkerchief|
|2014-08-20 13:24||Footkerchief||Status||new => confirmed|
|2014-08-26 10:19||chaosvolt||Note Added: 0029663|
|2014-08-26 13:16||chaosvolt||Note Edited: 0029663||View Revisions|
|2016-02-11 12:48||chaosvolt||Note Added: 0034640|
|2016-02-16 00:55||Detros||Note Added: 0034678|
|2016-03-07 09:52||chaosvolt||Note Added: 0034801|
|2016-06-06 14:52||Witty||Note Added: 0035357|
|2016-06-07 09:19||chaosvolt||Note Added: 0035362|
|2020-01-07 08:50||FantasticDorf||Note Added: 0039657|
|2020-01-07 08:53||FantasticDorf||Note Added: 0039658|
|2020-01-08 01:18||FantasticDorf||Note Edited: 0039657||View Revisions|
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