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0010878Dwarf FortressCivilizations/Entities -- Generalpublic2018-08-25 19:402019-04-19 15:30
Daris 
Loci 
normalminorhave not tried
acknowledgedopen 
0.44.12 
 
0010878: My civilization is undergoing a civil war
I don't know if this is intended or just emergent behavior, but my civilization in my current game is having a civil war. It started when I prodded a local goblin pit just to stir up some invasions. A year or two later, my civ invaded a goblin pit belonging to that goblin civ and conquered it, then 6 months later attacked that same pit again. Since the pit was now under the control of my civ, and my civ attacked it, this began a civil war. My fortress is currently at war with my civ, and no dwarven caravan arrived this past autumn.
No idea how to reproduce this.
No tags attached.
Issue History
2018-08-25 19:40DarisNew Issue
2018-08-25 20:18Shonai_DwellerNote Added: 0038741
2018-08-26 07:10DarisIssue Monitored: Daris
2018-08-26 07:10DarisIssue End Monitor: Daris
2018-08-26 07:11DarisNote Added: 0038743
2018-08-26 07:24Shonai_DwellerNote Added: 0038744
2018-08-26 08:25DarisNote Added: 0038745
2018-08-26 11:46LociNote Added: 0038750
2018-08-26 11:46LociAssigned To => Loci
2018-08-26 11:46LociStatusnew => acknowledged
2018-08-29 19:03DarisNote Added: 0038766
2018-09-07 22:13taledenNote Added: 0038794
2018-09-07 22:14taledenIssue Monitored: taleden
2018-09-07 22:15taledenNote Edited: 0038794bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0038794#r15772
2018-09-13 07:43taledenNote Added: 0038801
2018-09-24 11:20ShimrodNote Added: 0038827
2018-10-08 05:31Kjak0110Note Added: 0038863
2018-11-14 17:52DarisNote Added: 0038946
2019-04-19 15:30LociNote Added: 0039335

Notes
(0038741)
Shonai_Dweller   
2018-08-25 20:18   
If you upload a save to dffd and post a link here someone will actually be able to see what happened. Definitely seems strange that your civ should take over the same site twice. Perhaps there was a revolution.
http://dffd.bay12games.com [^]
(0038743)
Daris   
2018-08-26 07:11   
Save located here:

http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=13980 [^]

I don't know how to edit the original entry to add that. Sorry!
(0038744)
Shonai_Dweller   
2018-08-26 07:24   
Just to check, this all happened in worldgen while you were playing? Or was one of the attacks from your fortress?
(0038745)
Daris   
2018-08-26 08:25   
The first attack on the goblin pit came from my fortress, but it was a goblin pit at the time. The attack(s) that caused the civil war came from my parent civ.
(0038750)
Loci   
2018-08-26 11:46   
Thank you for the save.

Being able to start a civil war with your own civilization is intentional. Getting caught up in a civil war because your civilization attacked a site twice in a row seems rather buggy, though.
(0038766)
Daris   
2018-08-29 19:03   
It might not have anything to do with attacking the same site twice - that may have been a coincidence due to the low age of my world and the relative dearth of possible targets.

Here is another save from another player with the same civil war problem:

http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=13992 [^]

The civ in question here is the Royal Wall, which attacked one of its own sites in 257, with no apparent provocation and without that site having previously been a goblin pit to the best of my reckoning.
(0038794)
taleden   
2018-09-07 22:13   
(edited on: 2018-09-07 22:15)
Here are a pair of backup saves from the same world, before and after my own civ went to war with itself:

http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14009 [^] (126-04-01)
http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14010 [^] (126-07-01)

From the legends of the "after" save, it looks like the war (The War of Racks) started on 126-04-04 when my civ (The Aqua Arches) fought a single battle (The Scorching Siege) against one of its own sites (The Helmed Daggers at Roomglories) on the other side of the world. There was a previous conflict (The Scalded Conflict) on 126-02-19 which also involved a single battle (The Stormy Attack) in which my civ attacked that same site, but that one apparently didn't cause the civil war issue since it was not yet evident in the "before" save above, from 126-04-01. Both sides of both battles were led by dwarves and I see no goblins mentioned, so I don't think it's related to goblin pit conquering; as far as I can see my civ just spontaneously attacked its own site, twice, leading to war. I have also never sent any raids out from this fortress, nor had any tantrums, any law breaking or even any deaths up to this point, so I can't think of anything I could have done in my fort to provoke the issue.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem reliably consistent; re-running the "before" save all the way through summer doesn't necessarily repeat the bug.

(0038801)
taleden   
2018-09-13 07:43   
Just to add a possible clue to this bug: digging through Legends in my world (the save is linked above) it turns out that the first dwarf-on-dwarf attack was led by one Olin Graspbridge with two unnamed human companions (both killed). No cause is given for that conflict ("The causes of the conflict are debated by scholars and very little is truly known.") but in Olin's own history I can see that she apprenticed under an elf and settled in a forest retreat to be with the master, and that site's elven civ is at war with my (and Olin's original) dwarven civ.

Curiously, Olin's entity relationships list her original dwarven site government as "former member", the elven site government as "member", and the overall dwarven civ as "member" -- that is, after relocating, she was evidently simultaneously a member of the dwarven civ and of the elven site government which belongs to an elven civ at war with the dwarves.

So it's possible that she attacked the dwarven site in her capacity as a member of the elven site government, but the game "credited" that attack by way of her civ-membership (the dwarven civ) rather than her site-membership (the elven forest retreat), thus logging the battle as dwarven civ vs dwarven site government and potentially causing the civil war.
(0038827)
Shimrod   
2018-09-24 11:20   
I noticed this with my latest fort as well. Digging through Legends shows that this it used to be a goblin site:

In the midwinter of 134 the Regal Lancer attacked the Confusing Plague of the Leaky Terrors in Bownightmare. The dwarf Doren Hallfell led the attack and the defenders were led by the goblin Jalew Menshort.

In the midwinter of 134 the Regal Lancer defeated the Confusing Plague of the Leaky Terrors and took over Bownightmare. The new government was called The Purple Guild.

In the midwinter of 134 the Regal Lancer defeated the The Purple Guild of the Regal Lancer and took over Bownightmare. The new government was called The Boot of Societies.
(0038863)
Kjak0110   
2018-10-08 05:31   
here's a save where a dwarven civ is attacking itself
http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14061 [^]
(0038946)
Daris   
2018-11-14 17:52   
Here is another save from another user in which, if I am reading Legends correctly, the civ attacked a goblin site, conquered it, then attacked it a second time starting the civil war.

http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14097 [^]

The civ in question is the Great Gate. It attacked Lulldemon in winter 125 after Lulldemon had already been taken.
(0039335)
Loci   
2019-04-19 15:30   
It is possible to reproduce this problem by sending out two squads to raid one site; the first to conquer it, and the second to attack it a little later.

Due to the way the "civil war" is currently tracked (as a civilization at war with itself, and each site at war with all others), it doesn't appear to be intentional behavior.

As a workaround, it is possible to remove a "civil war" with DFHack:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=173306.0 [^]