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0004751Dwarf FortressDwarf Mode -- Itemspublic2011-07-13 08:392014-12-30 20:32
lowminorhave not tried
Core duo 4GB RAM 9800 GTXWindowsVista 64 bit
0004751: Building and then removing floors seems to be generating dumped stones
I'm not sure if it's creating extra stones, or finding stones that disappeared doe to some other bug, but what I'm seeing happen is extra rocks being found when floors are deconstructed. I encountered this because I wanted to get rid of muddy covering on floors so I don't have to worry about trees growing and interfering with a trap system.
This is what has happened beginning to end in this area, over 20+ years.

Dug out a large area, and made it into an obsidian mixer trap. Used the trap, and it wasn't pretty. Spent years digging it back out safely, then more years hauling all the rock out of the hole that wasn't needed for making a 30x40 collapsing ceiling trap. Then I decided to repave everything and remove paving, then smooth stuff out and make sure I wouldn't have trees growing that might prevent the trap from working. After creating and then removing the paved floors, my dwarves are randomly finding dump-designated rocks that were not there before. I did check for hidden rocks the first time I saw this. When it happened again, it happened where I know full well that there was nothing hidden.

With all of the releases of magma while cleaning up the obsidian mixer nightmare, some places might have had magma many times in the same time. I do remember seeing some weird rock-type materials hauled by my dwarves out of this place too - maybe the strange mixed up rocks with icons that look like fat are somehow related to the phantom rocks that I'm generating, somehow?

I am currently attempting to create a save game where the phenomenae is repeated through a save.
Fixed in 0.40.09?, Save Included
duplicate of 0000895resolved Toady One Items disappear (become invisible) after getting pushed by flowing water, burning in magma, or encased in ice 
Issue History
2011-07-13 08:39FarmerbobNew Issue
2011-07-13 08:52FarmerbobNote Added: 0018222
2011-07-13 09:03FarmerbobIssue Monitored: Farmerbob
2011-07-13 09:10FarmerbobNote Added: 0018223
2011-07-13 09:23FarmerbobNote Added: 0018224
2011-07-13 10:02QuietustNote Added: 0018225
2011-07-13 10:03QuietustNote Edited: 0018225bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0018225#r6813
2011-07-13 10:14FarmerbobNote Added: 0018226
2011-07-13 10:15FarmerbobNote Added: 0018227
2011-07-13 10:26DwarfuNote Added: 0018228
2011-07-13 10:26DwarfuRelationship addedchild of 0000895
2011-07-13 10:27DwarfuTag Attached: save
2011-07-13 10:28DwarfuNote Edited: 0018228bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0018228#r6815
2011-07-13 10:29DwarfuTag Detached: save
2011-07-13 10:29DwarfuTag Attached: Save Included
2011-07-13 10:51FarmerbobNote Added: 0018229
2011-07-13 11:58FarmerbobNote Edited: 0018229bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0018229#r6817
2014-08-14 12:26Toady OneNote Added: 0029043
2014-08-14 12:27Toady OneRelationship replacedrelated to 0000895
2014-08-14 12:40FootkerchiefAssigned To => Footkerchief
2014-08-14 12:40FootkerchiefStatusnew => needs feedback
2014-08-14 12:41FootkerchiefTag Attached: Fixed in 0.40.09?
2014-12-30 20:32FootkerchiefNote Added: 0031605
2014-12-30 20:32FootkerchiefRelationship replacedduplicate of 0000895
2014-12-30 20:32FootkerchiefStatusneeds feedback => resolved
2014-12-30 20:32FootkerchiefResolutionopen => duplicate

2011-07-13 08:52   
OK, I have a save that seems to be reproducing the effect. Going to try it again to be sure.
2011-07-13 09:10   
Pure vanilla 0.25 save. No mods or tilesets or raws editing at all. Only some ini tweaks and the world was generated as a custom world within the toolset provided in world generation.

Verified two times in a row repeatable. Some details about the test as I zip it up and get it over to dffd.

Points 20-23, named Corner NW, Corner NE, Corner SE, Corner SW define the area of the test

Z-level -7

When I generated this test I used three rows of rock, a Gneiss row, then Orthoclase row, then Gneiss row.

The tiles do not start out designated for destruction, you will need to do that d->n over the area bounded by the points described above.

At the bottom right of the test area (within a tile or two of Corner SE), after you have the horde of children come and destroy the floor, a piece of chalk that was simply not there appears at some point during the destruction process, and it is predesignated for dumping. Remember that all the block floors were gneiss and orthoclase, so the chalk is definitely appearing out of nowhere.

You have to watch carefully for it, the adult haulers will grab it up pretty quickly and run off with it, and the mob of children breaking rocks can obscure the adults grabbing the rocks. I only noticed the phantom rocks because there's no way that the adult haulers should have been able to find white rocks down there, and I watched a couple haul away some white rocks after their destroy actions were completed, then noted they were chalk! which wasn't there before.
2011-07-13 09:23   
OK, here's the save where the bug can be recreated

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4664 [^]

If you want to see the mess shortly after the obsidian trap, I actually submitted another bug about aquatic kittens that was shortly after the mess was created.

I did notice when cleaning out the mess that there were lots of those weird mixed up materials, and also, there were some odd collapsing behaviors under the bridges that were used for mixing.

Here's the earlier stage, if someone wants to see what generated the scenario in the first place.

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4596 [^]

The kitten trapped in the water that I thought could breathe underwater is in the obsidian trap, close to where the points 20-23 are located on the top save, and on the same level.

I'm not sure how much seeing what I did earlier might help, but as mentioned above, I did see some odd behaviors when cleaning out the mixer mess.
2011-07-13 10:02   
(edited on: 2011-07-13 10:03)
It's possible that some rocks got pushed around by flowing magma and disappeared (due to 0000895), and that removing a construction on the tile is enough to make them reappear; however, that wouldn't explain why your dwarves were never dumping the rocks in the first place (even if they're hidden in that manner, dwarves will still pick them up unless they're made of items that never get picked up in the first place).

By any chance did you once pave your obsidian trap area with ordinary stone? If you did, it'd explain what you're seeing - if you build a non-wall construction somewhere and then cast obsidian on it and dig it out, the old construction will not be revealed, but if you then construct something else on top of it and remove it, you get the old materials back (along with the new ones). I first discovered this in 40d when I casted obsidian on top of several green glass block ramps.

The strange rocks that looked like fat were globs of stone that were melted by the magma and then allowed to cool.

2011-07-13 10:14   
The old construction having obsidian mixed on top of it might be it. I did floor some sections of the obsidian mixer before I was really sure what I was going to do with it, though I don't think I did that section. The first two places where I saw the issue, I definitely paved there at one point before the obsidian mixer was used.
2011-07-13 10:15   
When those globs of stone were carried off, my dwarves put them into my food storage stockpiles, where they disappeared. That's why I thought they might be related?
2011-07-13 10:26   
(edited on: 2011-07-13 10:28)
The chalk is accounted for in the stocks screen. Seeing how it is all in a nice row (lower right of the bottom gneiss row), it most likely dropped down from the level above after being pushed by water at some point. If you remove dump designations and forbid all chalk, you'll see it all laying there when they finish deconstruction.

I'm going to child this to 0000895, but the glob portion should probably be elevated to its own report. The 'lost'/recovered materials from casting in obsidian is most likely covered under 0000895 as well.

2011-07-13 10:51   
(edited on: 2011-07-13 11:58)
Actually, it couldn't have come from the z level above as a result of water movement, as I completely cleared that level of all rocks while building the bridges. I certainly might have dropped it down there by mining and channeling, but not water. Now during the cleanup operation, water and magma were mixed regularly, and water and magma flows both ere started and stopped on small scales as pockets were channeled out. During actual activation of the trap, lines of water and magma were dropped simultaneously, in rows, through retracting bridges, with 1 row of empty tiles between each row of magma and water. If there was anything down there it almost certainly would not have stayed in a straight line.

The obsidian mixer was a series of 30+ bridges and lots of natural stone walls.

Basically alternating magma and water over the bridges, with natural stone providing the separation between bridges until the bridges were all opened simultaneously, at which point there was a terrible mishmash of magma, water, and obsidian.

To clear up the mess, the first thing I did was cut away all the walls that separated the magma and water bridges. That might have been where any lines of chalk came from. Then I started channeling out the areas under these standing chalk stones, sometimes dropping them into lava, sometimes water, sometimes dropping them onto obsidian slopes where they were later melted by lava or pushed around by water.

During this process, my bridges were still functional, but there was some very strange collapsing behavior happening at times, where tiles under bridges that should have been supported by other tiles were not supported, and fell in apparently randomly as tiles around them were channeled out, or dug under.

I ended up destroying all the bridges, and there was still some odd collapsing behavior during cleanup, that seemed to be related to obsidian that formed under bridges - but again, that's obsidian, not chalk, but some of the collapses might have fallen onto the chalk, and there was a bit of(but not much) water movement of rocks down there. I was actually doing my best to melt as much of the chalk as I could, so I wouldn't have to haul it out.

As I mentioned above, the aquatic kitten save above might be of interest, as it shows the situation almost immediately post-activation of the mixer, and you can see there where all the chalk was, both mined and unmined.

The chalk rock was certainly not being hauled before it was uncovered. After I finished cleaning out the mess, I spent 5 years hauling away all the rock in there before realizing that I had caused some massive inefficiencies with the zoning that I did to keep dwarves safe diring the digging out process.

I didn't even start the paving until the haulers were completely done with hauling out all the rock down there, and I had free labor available in my idler screen.

Toady One   
2014-08-14 12:26   
0000895 is fixed, but it is hard to say if this is fixed. 0.40.09+ checks would be useful, if possible.
2014-12-30 20:32   
Please reopen this report or PM a manager on the forums if this problem is still present in the latest version.