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0000721Dwarf FortressAdventure Mode -- Combatpublic2010-04-07 09:012011-02-20 17:36
Toady One 
0000721: Mortal wounds frequently don't kill, hearts/throats barely bleed, disembowelment rare
While playing adventurer mode I stabbed a elf right through the heart and it was a red injury.

He didnt die and the bleeding stopped, Shouldnt he have bled to death?

Also it seems you cant disembowel creatures anymore. I have given MANY creatures red gut injurys yet they dont get disembowled and they dont die.
Find a creature and keep attacking him untill his heart gets red.

Then wait and in the L menu you can see that the bleedings syopped even though he should be dead.
artery, bleeding, gouge, guts, heart, lodged, MAJOR_ARTERIES, mortal, mortal wound, neck, popped out, throat, wound
has duplicate 0001404closed Footkerchief Disembowelment almost never happens 
has duplicate 0001745closed Footkerchief Elk Bird lasts five days sans heart 
child of 0000033resolved Toady One Bronze colossus, skeletal creatures, fleshballs, and others are impossible to kill 
Issue History
2010-04-07 09:01toybasherNew Issue
2010-04-07 09:02toybasherTag Attached: wound
2010-04-07 09:05toybasherIssue Monitored: toybasher
2010-04-07 10:29FootkerchiefSummaryMortal wounds are not just the same? => Mortal wounds frequently no longer mortal, hearts/throats barely bleed, disembowelment rare
2010-04-07 10:29FootkerchiefRelationship addedchild of 0000033
2010-04-08 15:34toybasherNote Added: 0002174
2010-04-08 15:34toybasherIssue End Monitor: toybasher
2010-04-08 15:35toybasherNote View State: 0002174: private
2010-04-08 15:36toybasherNote Added: 0002177
2010-04-08 15:37toybasherNote View State: 0002174: public
2010-04-08 15:37SirPenguinNote Added: 0002178
2010-04-08 15:37SirPenguinIssue Monitored: SirPenguin
2010-04-08 21:48shinzirilNote Added: 0002258
2010-04-08 23:56flashzomIssue Monitored: flashzom
2010-04-09 03:39Khym ChanurIssue Monitored: Khym Chanur
2010-04-09 15:03toybasherIssue Monitored: toybasher
2010-04-14 12:54lord_chaos22000Issue Monitored: lord_chaos22000
2010-04-17 14:26toybasherNote Added: 0003991
2010-04-18 11:21toybasherIssue End Monitor: toybasher
2010-04-18 11:21toybasherTag Attached: bleeding
2010-04-18 11:21toybasherTag Attached: mortal wound
2010-04-18 11:21toybasherTag Attached: mortal
2010-04-18 11:22toybasherTag Attached: guts
2010-04-18 11:22smjjamesNote Added: 0004073
2010-04-18 11:23toybasherNote Added: 0004075
2010-04-18 11:24toybasherTag Attached: heart
2010-04-24 07:00toybasherNote Added: 0004878
2010-04-24 07:07toybasherTag Attached: throat
2010-04-24 09:49nocashIssue Monitored: nocash
2010-04-25 08:35toybasherIssue Monitored: toybasher
2010-04-25 15:53toybasherNote Added: 0005048
2010-04-26 11:34toybasherTag Attached: artery
2010-04-26 12:43FootkerchiefSummaryMortal wounds frequently no longer mortal, hearts/throats barely bleed, disembowelment rare => Mortal wounds frequently no longer mortal, MAJOR_ARTERIES doesn't work, disembowelment rare
2010-04-26 12:43FootkerchiefRelationship addedhas duplicate 0001404
2010-04-26 12:44FootkerchiefSummaryMortal wounds frequently no longer mortal, MAJOR_ARTERIES doesn't work, disembowelment rare => Mortal wounds frequently no longer mortal, hearts/throats barely bleed, disembowelment rare
2010-04-26 12:44FootkerchiefTag Attached: MAJOR_ARTERIES
2010-04-26 12:45FootkerchiefNote Added: 0005160
2010-04-27 13:47toybasherNote Added: 0005389
2010-04-27 14:02FootkerchiefNote Added: 0005398
2010-05-04 23:41FootkerchiefRelationship addedhas duplicate 0001745
2010-05-15 07:52toybasherNote Added: 0006718
2010-05-15 10:48FootkerchiefNote Added: 0006729
2010-05-15 10:51FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0000723
2010-05-16 07:28derigoNote Added: 0006773
2010-05-16 08:24derigoNote Edited: 0006773bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0006773#r2530
2010-05-16 11:14FootkerchiefNote Added: 0006796
2010-05-16 11:16FootkerchiefNote Edited: 0006796bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0006796#r2544
2010-05-23 14:57toybasherNote Added: 0007225
2010-05-23 15:03toybasherNote Added: 0007226
2010-05-23 15:05toybasherNote Added: 0007227
2010-05-28 17:32toybasherTag Attached: lodged
2010-05-31 15:06toybasherNote Added: 0007517
2010-06-01 11:40toybasherTag Attached: popped out
2010-06-02 12:34toybasherTag Attached: neck
2010-06-06 12:52toybasherTag Attached: gouge
2010-06-06 13:05FootkerchiefNote Added: 0007823
2010-06-06 13:09toybasherNote Added: 0007825
2010-06-06 13:25FootkerchiefNote Added: 0007827
2010-06-06 13:34toybasherNote Added: 0007829
2010-06-12 09:35smjjamesNote Added: 0008199
2010-06-12 09:36smjjamesNote Edited: 0008199bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0008199#r3095
2010-06-25 08:31toybasherNote Added: 0009083
2010-06-25 13:15smjjamesNote Added: 0009099
2010-06-28 15:50toybasherNote Added: 0009275
2010-06-28 18:22smjjamesNote Added: 0009283
2010-06-28 18:25smjjamesNote Edited: 0009283bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009283#r3554
2010-06-29 00:14smjjamesNote Edited: 0009283bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009283#r3558
2010-06-29 00:15smjjamesNote Edited: 0009283bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009283#r3559
2010-06-29 00:15smjjamesNote Added: 0009292
2010-06-29 16:45toybasherNote Added: 0009337
2010-06-29 17:45smjjamesNote Added: 0009341
2010-06-29 20:35smjjamesNote Edited: 0009341bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009341#r3583
2010-06-30 14:14toybasherNote Added: 0009418
2010-06-30 14:18smjjamesNote Added: 0009419
2010-06-30 14:19toybasherNote Edited: 0009418bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009418#r3604
2010-06-30 14:19toybasherNote Edited: 0009418bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009418#r3605
2010-06-30 14:24toybasherNote Edited: 0009418bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009418#r3606
2010-06-30 17:36toybasherNote Added: 0009431
2010-06-30 18:43smjjamesNote Added: 0009433
2010-06-30 19:41smjjamesNote Edited: 0009433bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009433#r3618
2010-06-30 20:28smjjamesNote Edited: 0009433bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009433#r3621
2010-06-30 20:57smjjamesNote Edited: 0009433bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009433#r3622
2010-06-30 21:58smjjamesNote Edited: 0009433bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009433#r3623
2010-07-01 08:59smjjamesNote Edited: 0009433bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009433#r3635
2010-07-01 09:43toybasherNote Added: 0009462
2010-07-01 09:47toybasherNote Edited: 0009462bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009462#r3637
2010-07-01 10:15smjjamesNote Added: 0009463
2010-07-01 17:24smjjamesNote Added: 0009482
2010-07-01 17:35smjjamesNote Edited: 0009482bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009482#r3646
2010-07-01 18:25toybasherNote Added: 0009485
2010-07-01 18:37smjjamesNote Added: 0009486
2010-07-01 18:43toybasherNote Added: 0009487
2010-07-01 18:45toybasherNote Edited: 0009487bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009487#r3648
2010-07-01 19:04smjjamesNote Added: 0009489
2010-07-01 19:11smjjamesNote Edited: 0009489bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009489#r3650
2010-07-01 21:17smjjamesNote Edited: 0009489bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009489#r3651
2010-07-01 21:40smjjamesNote Added: 0009496
2010-07-01 21:47smjjamesNote Edited: 0009496bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009496#r3655
2010-07-01 22:00smjjamesNote Edited: 0009496bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009496#r3656
2010-07-01 22:37smjjamesNote Edited: 0009496bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0009496#r3657
2010-07-02 05:44toybasherNote Added: 0009510
2010-07-02 05:54toybasherNote Added: 0009512
2010-07-02 07:03FootkerchiefSummaryMortal wounds frequently no longer mortal, hearts/throats barely bleed, disembowelment rare => Mortal wounds frequently don't kill, hearts/throats barely bleed, disembowelment rare
2010-07-02 08:16smjjamesNote Added: 0009518
2010-07-05 10:22FootkerchiefRelationship deletedrelated to 0000723
2010-07-05 12:39eerrNote Added: 0009657
2010-07-06 06:30Toady OneNote Added: 0009679
2010-07-06 06:30Toady OneStatusnew => resolved
2010-07-06 06:30Toady OneFixed in Version => 0.31.09
2010-07-06 06:30Toady OneResolutionopen => fixed
2010-07-06 06:30Toady OneAssigned To => Toady One
2010-07-10 01:25Khym ChanurIssue End Monitor: Khym Chanur
2010-07-28 06:09nocashIssue End Monitor: nocash
2010-08-20 17:35toybasherIssue End Monitor: toybasher
2011-02-20 17:36SirPenguinIssue End Monitor: SirPenguin

2010-04-08 15:34   
How do i edit my summery?
2010-04-08 15:36   
Also the bleeding stops before the victim even becomes "Faint".
2010-04-08 15:37   
It's incredibly noticeable in Adventurer Mode. I once took on a whole town and despite getting a flashing "Mortal Wound" and cyan damage to my heart, a lung, and all my organs...I loved just fine. I only got a bit winded due to one functioning lung.
2010-04-08 21:48   
Really, a lot of the time when you have a "Mortal Wound" it's just a bruised lung, which heals moderately quickly. However, it seems that if BOTH lungs are bruised (or bruised enough), you WILL suffocate eventually. Interesting.

But yeah, heart-shots don't seem to do enough, and bleeding stops oddly quickly.
2010-04-17 14:26   
It happened again, also has anyone seen a creature get disembowled or have a throat get torn out?
2010-04-18 11:22   
Nope, not even in all of the combat stuff in Arena.
2010-04-18 11:23   
Penguin Cyan means function loss, yet the heart has no use in game, just causes fatal bleeding (well before 2010 at least) when injured. I guess cyan heart injurys should be fatal as basicly your still fine even through your heart has pretty much stopped beating
2010-04-24 07:00   
I found out the major arteries tag dosnt work properly and this makes alot of sense (hearts not bleeding much and throats not being slashed out) an an admin please come along and update the summery for me? Thanks.
2010-04-25 15:53   
Can an admin hurry up and change the summery for me?,thanks
2010-04-26 12:45   
I'm leaving the summary alone, as people searching for this bug aren't likely to know what MAJOR_ARTERIES refers to. Don't worry too much about it -- Toady knew before April 1st that MAJOR_ARTERIES and other bleeding stuff isn't working right.
2010-04-27 13:47   
But foot this is why hearts dont bleed and this is also why throats dont bleed!, It means evreything! Just say that because magor arter tag dosant work hearts and throats barly bleed and are no longer mortal. Or somthing!
2010-04-27 14:02   
Toady already knows that it doesn't work.
2010-05-15 07:52   
2010-05-15 10:48   
Yes, really. It was discovered during pre-release testing.
2010-05-16 07:28   
(edited on: 2010-05-16 08:24)
Its not surprising, the MAJOR_ARTERIES tag is applied in a completely different manner than all other body parts. I bet I could simulate something like what Toady was going for by making an special ARTERY tissue that bleeds 50 times more than normal. I am loathe to stick something lack that in my game atm, though, with it being so hard to protect your throat.

Also, it would probably break 'Choking' completely, not that its working terribly well at the moment anyway. ;p

No nevermind, the choking behavior happens to any body part with the [THROAT] tag. Unsurprisingly, throats have this tag. Removing the MAJOR_ARTERY business from dwarves altogether doesn't seem to do a damned thing, as far as I can tell in my testing. The tag seems fully nonfunctional to me. What is it _supposed_ to do exactly?

Throats never get more than brown wounds because they're composed entirely of skin, tiny, and embedded in the head. Skin heals ridiculously fast. And any attack that would do more damage than that would decapitate you, or shatter your skull. The THROAT token in the body part seems to prevent the throat from getting pinched off or gouged out like eyeballs can be.

2010-05-16 11:14   
(edited on: 2010-05-16 11:16)
I believe the purpose of TL_MAJOR_ARTERIES is what Toady mentioned in http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev_2009.html#2009-01-17 [^]

"permanent bleeding for wounds like heart bifurcation/throat removal"

They're arteries that are supposed to bleed forever once severed, I think. I don't get why they "couldn't be handled in the raw templates," though (Toady's note in creature_standard) -- that makes sense for the throat, since it's just skin tissue, but why couldn't it be added to HEART_TISSUE?

2010-05-23 14:57   
Even weirder foot, throat damage never goes beyond brown so it cant be removed,

I bet this is how he nerfed strangulation so it didnt cause bleeding to death,

He just made it so throats cant be damaged severe enough to cause heavy enough bleeding.

and yes, I survived a red heart wound that was "torn apart"

its extremely frustrationg how at the same time arrows that stick in ears make you bleed to death and fingers yet with a heart torn apart youl be ok
2010-05-23 15:03   
If major arteries worked throat damage could stay as it is.

wouldnt matter for throat wounds not going worse then brown cause you could still sever the artery.
2010-05-23 15:05   
Somthing of interest also is that eyes cant be entirely gouged out, only "broken open" (wtf?) this might be linked to the throat damage bug
2010-05-31 15:06   
to derigo, Even worse, eyelids cant be torn off either,only damaged (yet I have seen a elf without an eyelid once, not sure why tho) eyeballs acually can only be damaged too, same with cheeks.

Its kinda lame tho, now I cant rip eyelids off or tear eyes out or anything.

(what happens if the throat tag is removed from the throat? can it then be gouged out?)

Now throats would be fine if it had several layers, Skin, fat, muscle and "Throat" Now wounds to the last layer can cause breathing problems and bleeding like in the old 40d days, and if they can be removed.

The same with necks, it seems necks dont have bones anymore so no broken necks that kill you or anything I THINK. I havnt checked the templates yet, I guess this because I have used my warhammer and the closest I have ever gotten is a torn apart neck muscle.

Edit: I have just checked and the neck is internal yet the throat is not!

And what does the "vascular" rating mean? Amount of blood loss when injured?
2010-06-06 13:05   
In case you're wondering, bumping this report by attaching useless tags won't get it fixed any faster. It's already stickied. Be patient.
2010-06-06 13:09   
Sorrey foot, I didnt even know adding tags bumps reports, however do you have any insight on what the vascular rating is for?
2010-06-06 13:25   
Yes, it's for how much a tissue bleeds when injured (higher number = more bleeding).
2010-06-06 13:34   

Its almost silly how the heart has 10, yet the major arteries tag dosant work,

if it did it would be pointless (I guess its so minor heart injuries are possible?)
2010-06-12 09:35   
(edited on: 2010-06-12 09:36)
I'm noticing that this is partially fixed as I'm seeing disembowelment quite alot whereas it never happened before. I even ripped them out of a creature or two.

This is with 31.06 and I'm doing the arena. Haven't yet tried weapons other than 'natural' weapons.

2010-06-25 08:31   

Can you test it out with other weapons? like swords or picks. I have NEVER seen disembowlment happen.
2010-06-25 13:15   
I was playing as a sea monster at that time, so I'm not exactly sure why I saw it there. Maybe the strength value required to do so is off?

The thing though is that weapons tend to be fatal without armor, and the armor probably prevents disembowelment. Not to mention that you can't target any specific part for an attack other than wrestling.
2010-06-28 15:50   
@james You sure about that? I am still trying EVREYTHING, what seems to affect how often guts popping occurs?
2010-06-28 18:22   
(edited on: 2010-06-29 00:15)
No clue. May have something to do with the wound itself or the properties of the wound, or even the attack that is used.

I was messing around in the lower right quadrant by spawning every available creature except for the BC (which would pwn everything) and the magmaman which would evaporate the water anyhow.

I could try it again with the sea monster and keep an eye out for the guts pop out message.

2010-06-29 00:15   
Okay, did some messing around and did it again. Although I was only able to do it once, the gamelog recorded a different critter getting the same thing. The requirement seems to be an attack on the lower body and have the muscles torn apart. The attacks in those two cases were a bite attack by a Jabberer on an Ice Wolf and I did a 'snatch' attack with one of my pincers (Sea Monster) on a Creeping Eye. There may have been more, but I wasn't going to go through ebery single combat log and the announcements and report log has a habit of eating the reports and annoncements.
2010-06-29 16:45   
Still cant get it to work, I wonder if theres a varaible that makes wounds "gut-popable" Just look at G-flex's thread on the froums about combat. I should ask him to test this.
2010-06-29 17:45   
(edited on: 2010-06-29 20:35)
Putting one of each critter excluding the BC (which would pwn everything), the dragon which kills too quickly with firebreath and messes the whole thing up, the magma dwellers, and the other material-men in an area (water is preferrable) seems to have a chance for at least one 'gut pop' event to happen.

Is there a bug report around (besides mine I think) which reports the fact that the announcements window and the reports eat events and stuff way too quickly?

Edit: I did a bit more testing and the requirement is more strict than simply tearing apart the muscle, which is actually a relatively common event, but the thing is that the tearing apart the muscle is almost always accompanied by some organ getting torn apart, in those cases, the guts don't pop out.

2010-06-30 14:14   
(edited on: 2010-06-30 14:24)
well I found out the tag that causes gut popping, [UNDER_PRESSURE]

Can somone try adding it to ALL body parts then testing it in arena?

It also has a [DEFAULT_RELSIZE:600] Maybe lowering it makes the guts smaller, thus taking a smaller wound to pop out of?

This is in the body_rcp.txt file
and body-default.txt file

2010-06-30 14:18   
Sounds like fun to me. :)

Gotta do math homework first though :P
2010-06-30 17:36   
I got a spear and stabbed an elf in the lower body "tearing apart the guts" about 13 times before he bled to death and still his guts didnt pop.
2010-06-30 18:43   
(edited on: 2010-07-01 08:59)
Okay, I went and added the [UNDER_PRESSURE] tag to EVERYTHING that has a rel-size tag, which is pretty much almost everything in both files. Gah that took a while.

Anyways, in my current round of fighting (round being fight until everybody besides me is dead), I had one non-gut pop so far:

Jabberer 1 bites Jaguar 1 in the upper body, tearing apart the muscle!
An artery has been opened by the strike!
The right lung pops out of the wound!

I'm keeping an eye out for more and none so far. I did accidentially spawn a bit of magma, which is complicating things slightly, but eh, survival of the fittest.

I think I'll try a horde of jabberers next. Edit: Or maybe not jabberers, I think they have too much fat, making them like a punching bag to a bronze collossus

Edit: Another one
Ogre 16 slashes Ogre 33 in the upper body with his bronze long sword, tearing apart the muscle!
An artery has been opened by the strike!
The left lung pops out of the wound!

I've been trying with a couple of different weapons and pop outs in general, not just gut pop outs, are rare all over the place. Haven't yet aeen any other organ besides a lung or gut get popped out yet

I'm also noticing a possible side effect here, it looks like maybe the under pressure tag is making it easier to die via brain injury. It may have always been this way and I'm just noticing it because I'm paying more attention to combat reports.

Also, I should note that I've seen plenty of *weapon* hits the upper/lower body, tearing the muscle. but the weapon usually gets stuckin and so invalidates a popout. So, theres something a bit screwy as weapons got stuck in almost every time.

Really though, maybe theres something else that is causing the pop outs to be rare. I don't know if the artery has been opened by the strike is coming from the strike itself or the lung ripping itself free of the artery.

Aside from possibly easier death by brain injury (just bruising the brain at minimum) and the new lung popouts, I'm not seeing any effects from putting the [UNDER_PRESSURE] tag on everything that has the rel_size tag on it in those two files Toybasher mentioned.

2010-07-01 09:43   
(edited on: 2010-07-01 09:47)
try lowering the rel_size tag, and brain wounds have been like that, most bruises to organs are beyond light which makes the brain go cyan (function loss) and cause death.

2010-07-01 10:15   
Okay. Since the lungs have been shown to be able to pop out reliably, I'll just put the tag onto the organs of the upper/lower body and reduce the size of the lungs and guts (and the other organs later), possibly going into double digit and single digit territory.
2010-07-01 17:24   
(edited on: 2010-07-01 17:35)
Allright, I've got a good update on this! With all the internal organs (besides the brain which doesn't take much damage to be fatal and the eyes which seem to be immoveably anchored) set to 50 rel size, I've got a heart popping out and a liver popping out while doing a bunch of minotaurs wielding bronze axes (a bit cliche, I know).

The messages for the two:

Minotaur 75 hacks Minotaur 73 in the upper body with his bronze battle axe, tearing apart the muscle!
An artery has been opened by the strike!
The liver pops out of the wound!

Minotaur 86 hacks Minotaur 87 in the upper body with his bronze battle axe, tearing apart the muscle!
The heart pops out of the wound!

Haven't had a chance to pull any of said popped organs out. I tried earlier with no weapons, which didn't seem to result in any pop outs. Then tried a bunch of Ogres with battle axes, but didn't work there. The minotaurs are still fighting though, and looking at the log, theres a few other lung pop outs and one other heart pop out. All of a sudden things are popping out left and right.

Edit: They really are popping out left and right, I haven't seen a gut pop out yet, but in controlling one minotaur, I realized I was trailing the guts two tiles behind me, and it was just the liver that popped out I think.

2010-07-01 18:25   
So lowering the tel_size makes gut pops more common? by the way, does the tag also effect the "pool" of popped organs? and also do the popped organs look any different from one another (doubtful)
2010-07-01 18:37   
Looks like lowering it does make pop outs more common, I've lowered that to 1 and haven't seen much of an improvement over 50. It might be the weapons I'm using, dunno.

"by the way, does the tag also effect the "pool" of popped organs?"

I'm beginning to really notice this. Before, I was getting heart and lung pop outs at about equal rates with the occasional liver pop out, but nothing else. I removed the under pressure tag from those two organs and now I'm seeing only the liver pops out. I was beginning to come to that conclusion and was about to remove the under pressure tag from the liver when I posted this up.

"and also do the popped organs look any different from one another (doubtful) "
Besides showing the usual popped out status in the wound history screen, the heart and lungs don't seem to show up graphically in any way. As I said before, the liver apparently counts as 'guts' that get trailed behind you.
2010-07-01 18:43   
(edited on: 2010-07-01 18:45)
By what I ment to pool of popped organs was "does lower relsize make the trail of guts smaller?"

Can you guve me instructions on how to add this to my game? where to add the tags, what files to the tags go in, etc.

2010-07-01 19:04   
(edited on: 2010-07-01 21:17)
No idea on the pool of popped organs.

As for the tags, I made a copy of my DF gamefolder so that I could mess around in the arena without having to worry about restoring them later. As for where they go, you already mentioned the two folders that they go in, just copy and paste the tag below the rel_size tag. Don't bother putting them on anything besides internal organs as it doesn't have any effect there. I haven't seen a brain pop out, but then again, it doesn't take much to do a fatal brain injury. I haven't tried to really see if the under pressure tag works for the eyes or not, like with gouging and pinching.

Anyways, since removing the under pressure tag from the liver, I'm not getting anything to pop out, so I'm currently trying various things.

Edit: Hrmmmm, after I removed the tag from the liver, the popouts completely dissapeared, then decided to put the rel_size back up to 50, still nothing. So I deleted the two files and copied the origionals over and then put the rel_size of the guts to 50, and nothing yet.

It was working very well for the upper_body organs (of which the liver is tagged as one). I have a hypothesis that perhaps the under pressure tag is working fine for the upper body but is not working at all for the lower body. So, I'm going to try and see how the under pressure tag works for the unaltered organs.

2010-07-01 21:40   
(edited on: 2010-07-01 22:37)
As I thought it would, the upper body organs are popping out regularily. The rel_size is unaltered, I'm doing minotaurs with copper battleaxes in the magma 'temple' in the northwest quadrant. I think I'll try making the guts into an upperbody organ.

EDIT! SUCCESS! When set as UPPERBODY, the guts pop out on cue! I've already seen 3 or 4 for this turn of combat logs, so lets see how often they do pop out during the duration of the battle. The guts popped out around 30 times, which is pretty good considering there were about 225 minitaurs total and the fact that the pop outs are broken.

So, in conclusion, it looks ALOT like there is something wrong with the lowerboidy tag vs the under pressure tag.

Just to see what happens, I removed the under pressure tag from the guts, put it on the lower body organs, and set the lower body organs to upper body, and now those are popping out. Using the same setup with minotaurs and copper axes, I've seen kidneys lots of times, stomach at least two times, saw a spleen once, I've yet to see a pancreas pop out though. It seems to be happening at what seems to be the normal rate of how its suppoused to work. This provides even more evidence that something is going on with the LOWERBODY tag and the UNDER_PRESSURE tag.

2010-07-02 05:44   
It feels so great to figure out bugs, I hope Toady fixes this one up soon.

So the Under_pressure tag makes no difference?

Maybe it means so a wound has to be really bad for them to pop out or something.
2010-07-02 05:54   
or it could just be the way the lowerbody is "made" like how the upperbody has ribs or something, also does the guts as set as an upperbody organ cause vomiting when bruised?
2010-07-02 08:16   
I guess the under_pressure tag is more like a flag that says yes it can pop out. Even messing with the rel_size tag seems to have no effect on the popout rate since it was happening plenty of times with the normal upperbody organs with unmodified rel_size tags.

For the second question, I saw plenty of _____ looks sick! when the guts were set as upperbody, so I would say yes.
2010-07-05 12:39   
was the upperbody wounded far more often than the lower body?
Toady One   
2010-07-06 06:30   
I'll save the some of the gory details for the dev log, but I fixed up major arteries and disemboweling. TL_MAJOR_ARTERIES (and TL_CONNECTS) was broken and beyond that, there was still only a chance to sever a major artery on occasion. It happens all the time now once you get to a 25% fracture level, so hearts that rate as "broken" should always gush.

For pop-outs, some of why it is working now must have been my previous fixes (mainly cumulative wounds, which allows pop-outs to happen way more often because repeated thrusts can kind of forge a gut-path to freedom), and the rest was fixing a problem where attacking through prior holes (in the skin say) prevents pop outs, even if you hacked a huge hole in the muscle.