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|ID||Project||Category||View Status||Date Submitted||Last Update|
|0000023||Dwarf Fortress||Combat -- General||public||2010-04-01 14:54||2014-07-18 00:22|
|Assigned To||Toady One|
|Target Version||Fixed in Version|
|Summary||0000023: Bite attacks frequently glance away or are generally ineffective|
|Description||I have team of alligators duking it out in arena (first thing I did with new version), but they can't seem to kill each other. I assume control of one and the combat logs are full of |
alligator n bites alligator m in the ____ but the blow glances
I'm pretty sure alligator teeth are harder then alligator skin :P
|Steps To Reproduce||make alligators fight each other :P|
|This also happens with two bronze colossi.|
|Is this actually a bug? Maybe it is just the way you are envisioning the words. Perhaps the alligator bit it sideways and couldn't clamp down, so that the side of his jaw just kind of slid closed on the side of the other one, not actually penetrating it, but, you know, glancing...|
|I had a similar problem in adventurer mode. Me vs. a bear, with my guy fighting with only a shield, ended up being a neverending fight. He'd glancing blow me, and I'd glancing blow him. Not one injury. Seems to be a glancing blow type of problem!|
|I've tried alligators against a few different things in the arena and I have to say I'm very afraid of alligators suddenly. very, very afraid...|
Yeah, I considered that, but that would be a rare occurrence, unlike the 100% of the time it happens now.
Considering I let them fight for like 10 minutes and the only thing damaged were the eyes.
I think skin needs some tweaking so that it isn't so strong.
"You strike Bat Man 1 in the throat with your Bat Man 1's right eye tooth, but the attack glances away!"
"You strike Bat Man 1 in the right eyelid with your Bat Man 1's right eye tooth, but the attack glances away!"
Yes. I know I am using an improvised weapon and adding in another variable, but either way something here needs a tweak.
|I'm almost positive this is due to MANY toothed creatures lacking the EDGE tag to their teeth attacks. Dogs and cats have it and they don't seem to have this problem.|
It's not that skin is too strong, it's that teeth (and horns and hooves and many other things) are only as hard as skin when they should be much harder.
|maybe someone could tell toadyone about this bug? It's an easy simple fix, which would be nice to be already included in the next version (and has not to be modded after release)...|
Jiri Petru (reporter)
|Well, I've attached the quick fix tag.|
Toady One (administrator)
Ah, cool. I had noticed alligators couldn't kill each other, but I thought there was more going on so I filed it with the combat rebalance stuff. I'm just going to use bone values for the necessary templates until something better comes up. I made nails more elastic. Good values are annoying to find in general.
I'm going to leave [this issue] open, as robes still seemed overpowered faced with a multi-grizzly assault on a dwarf and I want to run the numbers there later.
edited on: 2010-07-03 20:46
Speaking of this one, the bite attacks of sharks seems a bit weaker than they should be, but they pretty quickly tear through by the second or third turn.
It may be more of an opinion here since dwarves and adventurers wouldn't encounter sharks aside from undead ones anyhow.
edited on: 2010-07-14 11:53
Found tooth enamel Young's modulus at
83 GPa and 12,000,000 lbf/in.
Tooth hardness science stuff http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1516-14392003000300011 [^]
"From the load versus depth of indentation curve Young's modulus was found to be typically 8.3×10^10 Pa and the yield stress to be 3.3×10^8 Pa." http://www.springerlink.com/content/w125706571032231/ [^]
Some bone data: www.tcd.ie/bioengineering/documents/LectureBoneProps1.ppt
Bone and glass and copper: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/young-modulus-d_417.html [^]
human vs cow bone! http://www.engin.umich.edu/class/bme456/bonefunction/bonefunction.htm [^]
silk silk bone http://www.complore.com/properties-materials-tensile-strength [^]
Sorry to spam but I found stuff for you.
Reminder sent to: Toady One
Tooth material properties posted at 0000023:0010248.
|Toady got around to change the teeth values in the raws? As of 34.02, unarmored characters are in bad trouble against creatures with teeth...|
I tested intensively in arena mode.
Alligator vs alligator = one alligator is always killed fast. Tested 15 times.
Alligator vs dwarf with silk clothing = dwarf always dies very fast, Few "defleted by"
Dwarf with silkvs wolf = dwarf wins though always heavily wounded.
This bug was reported before targeted attacks, so it was common for creatures to spend a long time hitting non vital body parts, but this is not the case anymore. I think we may close it.
|Okay, I guess we can close this.|
|2010-04-01 14:54||nichaey||New Issue|
|2010-04-01 14:56||B0015||Note Added: 0000016|
|2010-04-01 15:01||Dwarfu||Note Added: 0000018|
|2010-04-01 15:52||SirPenguin||Note Added: 0000026|
|2010-04-01 22:28||DoctorZuber||Note Added: 0000105|
|2010-04-02 00:18||nichaey||Note Added: 0000125|
|2010-04-02 05:56||Todestool||Tag Attached: combat|
|2010-04-02 22:59||bradb||Note Added: 0000432|
|2010-04-03 15:08||Footkerchief||Category||General => Combat -- General|
|2010-04-08 12:24||SirPenguin||Note Added: 0002121|
|2010-04-08 18:49||Footkerchief||Relationship added||parent of 0000744|
|2010-04-08 18:51||Footkerchief||Summary||Glancing bites => Bite attacks frequently glance away or are generally ineffective|
|2010-04-28 03:39||derigo||Note Added: 0005497|
|2010-04-28 08:36||Logical2u||Relationship added||parent of 0000270|
|2010-04-28 08:36||Logical2u||Relationship added||parent of 0000802|
|2010-04-28 08:50||Logical2u||Relationship deleted||parent of 0000270|
|2010-04-28 08:50||Logical2u||Relationship added||has duplicate 0000270|
|2010-06-02 14:21||gruftschreck||Note Added: 0007581|
|2010-06-02 14:34||Jiri Petru||Tag Attached: Probable Quick Fix|
|2010-06-02 14:35||Jiri Petru||Note Added: 0007582|
|2010-06-06 05:27||Toady One||Note Added: 0007784|
|2010-06-06 05:27||Toady One||Assigned To||=> Toady One|
|2010-06-06 05:27||Toady One||Status||new => acknowledged|
|2010-06-06 05:27||Toady One||Tag Detached: Probable Quick Fix|
|2010-06-06 05:36||Cel||Issue Monitored: Cel|
|2010-07-03 20:10||Blebleman||Issue Monitored: Blebleman|
|2010-07-03 20:37||smjjames||Note Added: 0009602|
|2010-07-03 20:46||smjjames||Note Edited: 0009602||View Revisions|
|2010-07-05 03:56||Khym Chanur||Issue Monitored: Khym Chanur|
|2010-07-14 08:25||Footkerchief||Relationship added||related to 0000033|
|2010-07-14 11:40||TomiTapio||Note Added: 0010248|
|2010-07-14 11:43||Footkerchief||Note Added: 0010249|
|2010-07-14 11:53||TomiTapio||Note Edited: 0010248||View Revisions|
|2010-08-14 12:48||Footkerchief||Relationship added||related to 0003025|
|2012-02-20 18:52||Footkerchief||Relationship deleted||related to 0003025|
|2012-02-27 00:08||thvaz||Note Added: 0020789|
|2012-02-27 00:08||thvaz||Issue Monitored: thvaz|
|2012-03-28 03:25||thvaz||Note Added: 0021817|
|2012-03-31 05:29||thvaz||Tag Attached: close|
|2012-03-31 05:29||thvaz||Tag Detached: close|
|2012-03-31 05:30||thvaz||Tag Attached: CLOSE THIS|
|2012-03-31 07:41||Footkerchief||Note Added: 0021941|
|2012-03-31 07:41||Footkerchief||Status||acknowledged => resolved|
|2012-03-31 07:41||Footkerchief||Resolution||open => fixed|
|2012-03-31 07:41||Footkerchief||Tag Detached: CLOSE THIS|
|2012-03-31 08:20||thvaz||Issue End Monitor: thvaz|
|2014-07-18 00:22||Cel||Issue End Monitor: Cel|
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