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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0010311Dwarf FortressGeneralpublic2017-10-21 04:592017-10-26 15:47
ReporterFantasticDorf 
Assigned ToLoci 
PrioritynormalSeveritytrivialReproducibilityN/A
StatusresolvedResolutionno change required 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version0.43.05 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0010311: All creatures rely on their mouths - drown/suffocate while only [APERTURE] breathing orifice is occupied.
DescriptionLacking any visible link to the lungs, noses are only relied on for smell and do not service the lungs BP feature to breathe in a [RAW] or hardcoded manner.

[BODY:NOSE]
    [BP:NOSE:nose:STP][CONTYPE:HEAD][SMELL][SMALL][CATEGORY:NOSE]
        [DEFAULT_RELSIZE:10]

As a result Dwarves are more liable to drown from ingesting substances or drowning in which water/contaminants enter the mouth, and have poorer breathing & oxygen recovery.
Steps To ReproduceOpen the body_default [RAW] file and use the notepad (or equivilent) function to 'find' [BODY:NOSE] and its other types.

In active play, watch as dwarves choke to death on alcohol as their mouth fills with vomit within a tavern after getting tipsy, effectively their only method of breathing connected to the lungs is blocked.
Additional InformationIt shouldn't affect full submersion in water or being choked from the throat/station of vulnerability such as being asleep or stunned, and would have considerably different effects in creatures of humanoid design that may or may not have a nose or alternatives if the bugfix was successfully implemented.

Lack of ability to breathe through the mouth may block the ability to update the dwarves heath states and confirm they can still breathe, leading to prolonged drowning states until the mouth is cleared (how that is achieved currently by the dwarf i do not know)

It is my belief that choking on water in the lungs is a myth perpetuated by the Bay12 community, and instead they are choking on contaminants entering & remaining inside the mouth.
Tagsbreath, choking, mouth, nose, suffocation
Attached Files

- Relationships

-  Notes
(0036803)
Shonai_Dweller (reporter)
2017-10-22 20:42

 OK I don't pretend to know much about this, but just to get the obvious out of the way, could you first explain why you think the suffocation isn't being caused by the alcohol syndrome which appears to impair breathing thus surely causing...suffocation?
Death by alcohol poisoning is, after all, an intended feature that appears to be working. Again, no tech knowledge here, just seems like something that needs clarifying first.

[CE_IMPAIR_FUNCTION:SEV:20:BP:BY_TYPE:BREATHE:ALL:PROB:100:SIZE_DILUTES:START:120:PEAK:480:END:1200:DWF_STRETCH:4]
(0036804)
FantasticDorf (reporter)
2017-10-23 03:25

 Through the line of reasoning in the OP, it makes them even less capable to breathe when they choke on vomit or a reagent/contaminant in the mouth by purposefully making breathing ineffective compared to normal choking.

The syndrome would make them suffocate faster/full speed in a minor situation where they might have choked on vomit or other contaminents in this state, but not be a sole cause. It'd have to be quite severe and extended to kill a dwarf solely so it might be assessed to be a combination of effects.

A additional test would be to deliberately induce syndromes onto dwarves that replicate non-total difficulty breathing (or for a short amount of time) & involve contaminants excreted from the mouth like blood and vomit.

Its important to note that the wiki says that impairment involves a total shutdown of a organ but i don't believe that to be wholly true, since it is a fallable community resource and even if it is, combined effects would matter in how fast a drunk dwarf deteriorates rather than extended suffocation.

( http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Syndrome [^] )
(0036805)
Loci (manager)
2017-10-26 15:47

 Tested in v0.43.05x32 with a modded creature inflicting the alcohol syndrome (raws below) and dwarves modded with [NO_EAT][NO_DRINK].

With the standard alcohol syndrome, 6 test dwarves died in 0000019:0000010 days. With the impaired breathing token removed, 6 test dwarves survived 6 months, despite being consistently nauseated and unconscious, at which point they went insane from lack of sleep. With *only* the impaired breathing token, 6 test dwarves died in < 10 days.



[CREATURE:BOOZY_FROG]
    [DESCRIPTION:A squat amphibian with leathery skin, found in swamps.]
    [NAME:boozy fog frog:boozy fog frogs:boozy fog frog]
    [CASTE_NAME:boozy fog frog:boozy fog frogs:boozy fog frog]
    [CREATURE_TILE:'f'][COLOR:2:0:0]
    [PETVALUE:30][PET][COMMON_DOMESTIC]
    [BENIGN][MEANDERER][LARGE_ROAMING]
    [AMPHIBIOUS][UNDERSWIM]
    [NATURAL]
    [POPULATION_NUMBER:250:500]
    [PREFSTRING:heady vapors]
    [BODY:QUADRUPED_NECK:2EYES:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRAIN:SKULL:MOUTH:TONGUE:RIBCAGE]
    [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_MATERIALS]
        [REMOVE_MATERIAL:HAIR]
    [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_TISSUES]
        [REMOVE_TISSUE:HAIR]
    [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:VERTEBRATE_TISSUE_LAYERS:SKIN:FAT:MUSCLE:BONE:CARTILAGE]
    [SELECT_TISSUE_LAYER:HEART:BY_CATEGORY:HEART]
     [PLUS_TISSUE_LAYER:SKIN:BY_CATEGORY:THROAT]
        [TL_MAJOR_ARTERIES]
    [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:STANDARD_HEAD_POSITIONS]
    [BODY_DETAIL_PLAN:HUMANOID_RIBCAGE_POSITIONS]
    [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:SINEW:SINEW_TEMPLATE]
    [TENDONS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
    [LIGAMENTS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:SINEW:200]
    [HAS_NERVES]
    [APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:STANDARD_WALK_CRAWL_GAITS:9000:8900:8825:8775:9500:9900] 1 kph
    [APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:STANDARD_CRAWLING_GAITS:9000:8900:8825:8775:9500:9900] 1 kph
    [APPLY_CREATURE_VARIATION:STANDARD_SWIMMING_GAITS:9000:8900:8825:8775:9500:9900] 1 kph
    [SWIMS_INNATE]
    [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:BLOOD:BLOOD_TEMPLATE]
    [BLOOD:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:BLOOD:LIQUID]
    [CREATURE_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
    [GETS_WOUND_INFECTIONS]
    [GETS_INFECTIONS_FROM_ROT]
    [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:PUS:PUS_TEMPLATE]
    [PUS:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:PUS:LIQUID]
    [BODY_SIZE:0:0:200]
    [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:LENGTH:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
    [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
    [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:90:95:98:100:102:105:110]
    [MAXAGE:20:30]
    [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:POISON:CREATURE_EXTRACT_TEMPLATE]
    [MELTING_POINT:9800]
    [BOILING_POINT:9900]
    [ENTERS_BLOOD]
    [SYNDROME]
        [SYN_NAME:boozy fog]
        [SYN_IDENTIFIER:INEBRIATION]
        [SYN_AFFECTED_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
        [SYN_IMMUNE_CREATURE:BOOZY_FROG:ALL]
        [SYN_INGESTED]
        [SYN_INJECTED]
        [SYN_CONTACT]
        [SYN_INHALED]
        [SYN_NO_HOSPITAL]
        [SYN_CONCENTRATION_ADDED:100:1000]
        [CE_NAUSEA:SEV:35:PROB:100:SIZE_DILUTES:START:120:PEAK:480:END:1200:DWF_STRETCH:4]
        [CE_DIZZINESS:SEV:50:PROB:100:SIZE_DILUTES:START:20:PEAK:240:END:600:DWF_STRETCH:4] for ataxia
        [CE_UNCONSCIOUSNESS:SEV:25:PROB:100:SIZE_DILUTES:START:120:PEAK:480:END:1200:DWF_STRETCH:4]
        

[CE_CHANGE_PERSONALITY:FACET:BASHFUL:-50:FACET:PRIVACY:-50:FACET:BRAVERY:25:FACET:CONFIDENCE:25:FACET:POLITENESS:-25:FACET:THOUGHTLE

SSNESS:25:PROB:100:SIZE_DILUTES:START:10:PEAK:120:END:480:DWF_STRETCH:4]
        [CE_FEEL_EMOTION:EMOTION:EUPHORIA:SEV:75:PROB:100:SIZE_DILUTES:START:10:PEAK:120:END:480:DWF_STRETCH:4]
        [CE_ERRATIC_BEHAVIOR:SEV:50:PROB:100:SIZE_DILUTES:START:10:PEAK:120:END:480:DWF_STRETCH:4]
        [CE_IMPAIR_FUNCTION:SEV:20:BP:BY_TYPE:BREATHE:ALL:PROB:100:SIZE_DILUTES:START:120:PEAK:480:END:1200:DWF_STRETCH:4]

    [SECRETION:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:POISON:GAS:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SKIN]
    [ATTACK:BITE:BODYPART:BY_CATEGORY:MOUTH]
        [ATTACK_SKILL:BITE]
        [ATTACK_VERB:bite:bites]
        [ATTACK_CONTACT_PERC:100]
        [ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:3:3]
        [ATTACK_PRIORITY:MAIN]
        [ATTACK_FLAG_CANLATCH]
    [NOCTURNAL]
    [MUNDANE]
    [CASTE:FEMALE]
        [FEMALE]
    [CASTE:MALE]
        [MALE]
    [SELECT_CASTE:ALL]
        [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:ALL:SKIN]
            [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:DARK_GREEN:1]
                [TLCM_NOUN:skin:SINGULAR]
        [SET_TL_GROUP:BY_CATEGORY:EYE:EYE]
            [TL_COLOR_MODIFIER:BLACK:1]
                [TLCM_NOUN:eyes:PLURAL]

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2017-10-21 04:59 FantasticDorf New Issue
2017-10-21 09:23 FantasticDorf Tag Attached: breath
2017-10-21 09:23 FantasticDorf Tag Attached: choking
2017-10-21 09:23 FantasticDorf Tag Attached: mouth
2017-10-21 09:23 FantasticDorf Tag Attached: nose
2017-10-21 09:23 FantasticDorf Tag Attached: suffocation
2017-10-22 20:42 Shonai_Dweller Note Added: 0036803
2017-10-23 03:25 FantasticDorf Note Added: 0036804
2017-10-26 15:47 Loci Note Added: 0036805
2017-10-26 15:47 Loci Status new => resolved
2017-10-26 15:47 Loci Resolution open => no change required
2017-10-26 15:47 Loci Assigned To => Loci

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